# Bethak - The Desi Lounge > Freedom Castle >  They are not Pakistanies

## Zaheer



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## sunil73

Zaheer you put valuable issue. Good.

But listen here they found video of muhammad sadiq in which he said, he are different from you, we will be concern about other muslims of the world. etc. etc. Now question is if any one who is not faithful with laws of that country where he born or citizen, then how much that country or the law protect him. 

There action was against British value, British laws and other British citizen. This is totally madness , that Pakistani muslims wants to live in West want to have there citizenship, but they are not faithful to that countries. 

7/7 attacks shows that muslims of west are not faithful to there residing country. This is big issue here and many faithful people are worry about this situation. Many muslim people here abusing and cursing those attacker. Because they were died but thousand of muslims still alive and living here in the west. 

I am agree with the British government, there were not British, as they said they are first muslims. So this is obvious that they should not recognize as British citizen. 
And every those who is not faithful to the adopted country should leave or thrown out from western countries. 

You are living in Germany, isn't ? You know how much difficult to take position in withe people. You have to question how much you are faithful to Germany.

I am sorry, but this is way to deal with this so called faith fullness to religion. 
I am sorry, but this is way to deal with this so called faith fulness to religion.

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## sunil73

Zaheer you put valuable issue. Good.

But listen here they found video of muhammad sadiq in which he said, he are different from you, we will be concern about other muslims of the world. etc. etc. Now question is if any one who is not faithful with laws of that country where he born or citizen, then how much that country or the law protect him. 

There action was against British value, British laws and other British citizen. This is totally madness , that Pakistani muslims wants to live in West want to have there citizenship, but they are not faithful to that countries. 

7/7 attacks shows that muslims of west are not faithful to there residing country. This is big issue here and many faithful people are worry about this situation. Many muslim people here abusing and cursing those attacker. Because they were died but thousand of muslims still alive and living here in the west. 

I am agree with the British government, there were not British, as they said they are first muslims. So this is obvious that they should not recognize as British citizen. 
And every those who is not faithful to the adopted country should leave or thrown out from western countries. 

You are living in Germany, isn't ? You know how much difficult to take position in withe people. You have to question how much you are faithful to Germany.

I am sorry, but this is way to deal with this so called faith fullness to religion. 
I am sorry, but this is way to deal with this so called faith fulness to religion.

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## spindozes

The remains of one of the terrorists got buried in his "home" village in Pakistan, a funeral in which most of the village attended.

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## Endurer

sunil one can't question patriotism in such a collective manner, yes they were british, no matter how faithful or indignified.

The question or perhaps the issue that you brought up here is worth some cynosure, but before going directly to that, I'd like to draw the primrose path here. 

Any person of a country born and brought up within the premisis of his country always keeps his country's flag high. He/she is more of an ambassador of 'goodwill' to the country he/she immigrates into. NRI or NRP for instance. Desi'z are an exception.

coming back to religion thing: how is britian related to Islam or Islam to britain. This is utter nonsense. Religion is basically a belief in a supernatural power controlling anything and everything we see & we do not see. Does that imply to britain? or usa? or pakistan? or the vatican city? or india?

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## Evian

I agree with Endurer, regardless of the fact that these young men were muslims, whatever the Brits should own up to their citizens. 


And Sunil, this is the same argument I've had with all my indian friends. You think that criticising muslims will get you favours from the Western superpowers? WRONG!! It is totally stupid to think like that. 

All your movies these days are full of propaganda against your own (muslim) countrymen. You guys don't even leave your own fellow countrymen alone. And haven't we all heard of Hindu extremists?? Wasn't BJP doing the same thing with their akhand bharata crap not too long ago?

And what do NRI's do? Don't you guys bring business back to india? Don't you cheat on your taxes in your sleazy desi ways? Where's you patriotism when NRI's send money back home to india? 

Stop slinging dirt, get some brains.

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## sunil73

What happen to you guys, I am not Indian, I am Pakistani, proud to call my self Pakistani.

sunil is id I am using. 
What more i say, you addresed to Idian Sunil not Pakistani Sunil

LOL

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## Evian

That makes me feel sadder than ever.

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## sunil73

Well, Evian dont jumps here and there to accused other, you been now justify yourself. First you think of me Indian and boasted and now when you know I am Pakistani, accused me been Pakistani. 

You make me even more sadder, and I am shameful to know your thoughts being Pakistani. 

Does Pakistani mean behave like brainless, illogical and egotistic? Pakistan has proud heritage and tradition of straggle and surviving with other sects and ethnic background (plz studies Pak history) 

I never have seen that value, particular in this forum. 

We Pakistani dieing to came in West  of course for better future. Finding all types of means legal or illegal, just to have US or European citizenship.

What does this means, after getting nationality, forget from where we started, is this true value of Pakistan? I consider this outrageous and foolish mentality.

I am sorry to say, I am getting tired of this attitude and norms. I telling you if we foreign residing Pakistani doesnt change our attitude, we will call misery on us. 

And the circumstances are already going to appear, have a look on the fast changing scene in USA and Europe after 9/11. 

Please be logical present real Pakistani heritage in this foreign country as citizen of it. Dont present Pakistan or Islam from uneducated or extremist Mullah and its agenda. 

Think and answer me this:

Pakistan does have many Christians and Hindus living there from many generations, and if they also rise up against Pakistan and its governments, not having same citizen rights and value as Muslims does. 

And if they start thinking and saying we are not Pakistani as we dont have same rights or value of true citizenship. (We all knows and could read events on Internet regarding minority persecution in Pakistan  Pakistan is one of the leading countries of world where minority persecution is in steep and rising). 

What will your or common Pakistani's reaction then? What will you do then?

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## Endurer

> What happen to you guys, I am not Indian, I am Pakistani,  proud to call my self Pakistani.
> 
> sunil is id I am using. 
> What more i say, you addresed to Idian Sunil not Pakistani Sunil
> 
> LOL


Mate, That is a matter of perception for yourself, as for me, I really don't give a dime about whereabouts!

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## sunil73

> Mate, That is a matter of perception for yourself, as for me, I really don't give a dime about whereabouts!



So chosing name Endurer or surviver does give you "dime" or should i say dame. 
Now i see what was perception behind this? when you don't have answers of the above mentioned question. Now you see real difference.

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## Evian

Well, Evian dont jumps here and there to accused other, you been now justify yourself. First you think of me Indian and boasted and now when you know I am Pakistani, accused me been Pakistani. 


*You were bashing muslims, weren't you?*


You make me even more sadder, and I am shameful to know your thoughts being Pakistani. 


Does Pakistani mean behave like brainless, illogical and egotistic? Pakistan has proud heritage and tradition of straggle and surviving with other sects and ethnic background (plz studies Pak history) 

*I think I have studied pak history in school and college. And I agree that we have a history of struggle and survival together*.

I never have seen that value, particular in this forum. 

*Why do you say that? I have non-muslim friends and neighbors in pakistan, and they never hated/said anything antimuslim before this whole muslim bashing thing became a natural-born-absolutely-cool-right of all nations on the face of earth*.

We Pakistani dieing to came in West  of course for better future. Finding all types of means legal or illegal, just to have US or European citizenship. 


*Yes, no one denies the fact that we left pakistan for a better life and future, but that doesn't mean that we resorted to cheating, or for the record, killing other humans as means of earning big bucks*


What does this means, after getting nationality, forget from where we started, is this true value of Pakistan? I consider this outrageous and foolish mentality. 


*Just to let you know, non resident pakistanis are probably the biggest asset to pakistan, we not only support pakistan financially (the largest source of foriegn exchange), we defend it verbally when it comes to one on one discussions and get hurt emotionally when something happens to our fellow pakistanis back home...regardless of religion. I apologize if I hurt you in anyway, since I didn't know you're a pakistani too.*

I am sorry to say, I am getting tired of this attitude and norms. I telling you if we foreign residing Pakistani doesnt change our attitude, we will call misery on us. 

And the circumstances are already going to appear, have a look on the fast changing scene in USA and Europe after 9/11. 

Please be logical present real Pakistani heritage in this foreign country as citizen of it. Dont present Pakistan or Islam from uneducated or extremist Mullah and its agenda. 

*You are clearly mistaken here, none of us represents either form of islam. And we do a better job of representing islam and pakistan than people back home, thank you very much!*

Think and answer me this: 

Pakistan does have many Christians and Hindus living there from many generations, and if they also rise up against Pakistan and its governments, not having same citizen rights and value as Muslims does. 


And if they start thinking and saying we are not Pakistani as we dont have same rights or value of true citizenship. (We all knows and could read events on Internet regarding minority persecution in Pakistan  Pakistan is one of the leading countries of world where minority persecution is in steep and rising). 

*I think you are getting your news from biased sources, racial violence exists all over the world and pakistan is no exception. It is shameful and absolutely wrong. But it is also wrong to say that pakistan is one of the leading nations doing that. Have you heard about the antimuslim violence across the border? I have friends from india who lost entire families in the gujarat massacre. They were burnt alive!! In america alone there are several cases of violence aimed against people of different color or race, but you don't hear about it since they are the ones writing history these days.*



What will your or common Pakistani's reaction then? What will you do then?


*I'll be hurt very very deeply if pakistan falls apart.........*

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## Endurer

> So chosing name Endurer or surviver does give you "dime" or should i say dame. Now i see what was perception behind this?


I still am not getting your point here, are you trying to say that being a representative to 'endurance' I should start giving dime about your perceptions? or is this some chronic constipation of yours arousing aversion. You've got to be avowal here.




> when you don't have answers of the above mentioned question. Now you see real difference.


What questions? as far as I see, those questions were directed towards Evian. With Evian answering all of your questions and concerns, I don't really feel like wasting my time answering them again.

no offence, peace!

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## sunil73

[quote="Evian @ Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:38 am"]

*Why do you say that? I have non-muslim friends and neighbors in pakistan, and they never hated/said anything antimuslim before this whole muslim bashing thing became a natural-born-absolutely-cool-right of all nations on the face of earth*.

Is there freedom of speech in Pakistan? Isnt there fearful blasphemous sword not hanging there. There are certain surveys and review by NGOs revealed that all accusations under blasphemy laws were baseless and bogus. None of them ever proved. The reports said the allegation was either due to property conflict, jealousy in work, or hatred. No non-muslims could think about Blasphemy, as they know its consequences. Think about this. 

If you are not updated on Pakistani news read this first:

http://www.persecution.org/newsite/n...?newscode=1638
http://in.christiantoday.com/news/wor_543.htm


And now read this:

http://www.persecution.org/newsite/n...753779c7f7487a

(these are only fewer websites, you could find hundred of websites) 

Try to observe this scenario first they been accused and totally destroyed by madness. And in the end what a good value been representing by them. 

Do you think in this situation they could say something to you, may be they not trust on you or afraid of you. And this make you happy and satisfy. That all is fine. 

Well the rest of the world is not! This been critically observed. I do have Pakistani friends here in west, from all walks of faith. 

Could I start telling you their views? 

I dont think you ready for this. If you are not ready to heard these as living in west. Imagine how much its heartful in Pakistan to person like you. 

I know you would not be agreeing with these facts. As you see as propaganda against Pakistan. What more could you deny? 

You do concern about across the border but first try to condemn what was and is happing back in Pakistan. 

When your house is of glass so dont throw stones others house.

*Yes, no one denies the fact that we left pakistan for a better life and future, but that doesn't mean that we resorted to cheating, or for the record, killing other humans as means of earning big bucks*

Cheating? Please dont push me here on internet, to reveal what cheating be committed by my fellow Pakistani bhaies here in Europe.

They show their divorced from wives then brought their mothers, mother-in-laws, sisters and sisters-in-laws as their wives, here in Europe, turn by turn. 

Committed in one crime, does means criminals.  

*Just to let you know, non resident pakistanis are probably the biggest asset to pakistan, we not only support pakistan financially (the largest source of foriegn exchange), we defend it verbally when it comes to one on one discussions and get hurt emotionally when something happens to our fellow pakistanis back home...regardless of religion. I apologize if I hurt you in anyway, since I  didn't know you're a pakistani too.*


I know that very well, and our country does need that for its prosperity, and second because our relatives back there. 


*You are clearly mistaken here, none of us represents either form of islam. And we do a better job of representing islam and pakistan than people back home, thank you very much!*

Yes you do, please have a look on all forums and their postings. Or should I start with you scrutinise all. 

*I think you are getting your news from biased sources, racial violence exists all over the world and pakistan is no exception. It is shameful and absolutely wrong. But it is also wrong to say that pakistan is one of the leading nations doing that. Have you heard about the antimuslim violence across the border? I have friends from india who lost entire families in the gujarat massacre. They were burnt alive!! In america alone there are several cases of violence aimed against people of different color or race, but you don't hear about it since they are the ones writing history these days.*

Why we all Pakistani deny facts, or even more accusing those who pointed out. Could not we learn from others. We cant justify ourselves to the worlds. Thats why human develops liturgical school, school of thoughts, not only learn about others. but most important from others.

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## sunil73

> I still am not getting your point here, are you trying to say that being a representative to 'endurance' I should start giving dime about your perceptions? or is this some chronic constipation of yours arousing aversion. You've got to be avowal here.  no offence, peace!




Have a look thoroughly you started it, I try to fewer your unremitting constipation. If its hard, plz ask someones help. 

Well who cares if you have and how much its level. who wana knows !.

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## Evian

I think there's no point wasting my breath!! 

Sunil...Dude, you should get grammer/vocab lessons first!!

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## Endurer

> Originally Posted by Endurer @ Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:05 pm
> 
> 
> I still am not getting your point here, are you trying to say that being a representative to 'endurance' I should start giving dime about your perceptions? or is this some chronic constipation of yours arousing aversion. You've got to be avowal here.   no offence, peace!
> 
> 
> Have a look thoroughly you started it, I try to fewer your unremitting constipation. If its hard, plz ask someones help. 
> 
> Well who cares if you have and how much its level. who wana knows !.


Are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort today? Nevertheless, don't let your mind wander, it's far too small to be let out on its own.

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## sunil73

> I think there's no point wasting my breath!! 
> 
> Sunil...Dude, you should get grammer/vocab lessons first!!



Is that least could you say in response of my posting. lol 
Yeh, of course this is common behaviour, to avoid. 
You didnt tell me, how fine English of those above-mentioned websites?
Do you able to read that or not? 

I have no interest to talk any more with you, on serious issue, as you not compatible at all. Your behaviour shows low-mentality already.

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## sunil73

> Originally Posted by sunil73 @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:14 am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Endurer @ Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:05 pm
> 
> ...




One could easily scrutinise your all posting on all forums, and notice, ever changing colour of English language. It reveals your source.I wonder why Evian not notice this? 

Keep it up, no one expect from you more.

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## Evian

Lolllllllllllllllll!!

I can see where this conversation is going!!!

Sunil, you're totally pissed off!! You need to go cool off before you even open your browser.

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## Evian

I presume that should take a fairly long time!

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## sunil73

your prescription is not creditable enough.

No site validity. lol

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## sunil73

Yeh!!!, same long as you took to reply me on first place. 

You replied first time 25th January 2006, to my posting. Which I posted 8th November 2005.

Please dont justify with..  I joined late or bala bala bala bala

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## Evian

Lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllzz!!

So damn funny, are you really 32 sunil?

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## sunil73

> I can see where this conversation is going!!!

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## Evian

well, cat got your tongue...?

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## sunil73

Perhaps this is another cultural insight: ranting is equated with humor. And I replied to this humor with  if cat wishes I could come within hours to get my tongue back. 

You don't remember anything I wrote in the past your accusations are baseless and without any thought, you are just trying to provoke because it seams thats all you are capable of. You constantly post one line comments without any thought, research, or a shred of intelligence to back up anything you have ever said here. 

I have specifically asked you to answer many issues on this forum go back and check how many time's I bet at least couple of time now. So please don't insult yourself anymore here it's pathetic you do know most of the people here are educated and can clearly see you ignorance and idiocy in your gibberish quit clearly. You know what it's like Thumper from Bambi said "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all". In your case also don't say anything anymore because I having trouble typing when I laugh this hard! I know you are already a recruited on your jihad mission.

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## Endurer

> Originally Posted by Endurer @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:48 pm
> 
> 
> 
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>  Originally Posted by sunil73 @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:14 am
> 
> ...



I beg your pardon for not being able to attend this of your's diabolical enlightenment-meets-enormity visceral. While I am back, I would like you to tell me something. Why are you always this abhorrent to the customs of planet Earth? Believe me there is nothing cyptic about us nor the planet itself. We believe in the stance of 'an eye of an eye, a tooth for a tooth'. Is that too much to ask? or in your case, too much to offer?

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## sunil73

> Originally Posted by sunil73 @ Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:07 pm
> 
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> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Endurer @ Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:48 pm
> 
> ...



yeh right! I am laughing my head off, While you comeback with some education or should I say with aid.  

Let me gladly respond you. Customs of planet earth wont infuriate me. Its you and evian that impulsive from customs. Go and read and check how you behave and respond me in first place. Since you dont esteem any customs, then no compulsion for you. 

Giving sight to your low mentality wits, the mind-set eye for an eye or tooth for an tooth  IS NOT your religious possession or approach. This approach belongs to someone else and they are applying on this world already. Difficult to see and understand! Go and educate yourself. 

Becoming moderate of some website not creditable enough to converse in each topic seriously. Again hard for you. Lol    

Why you call people to dismay you ?

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## snakhtar

Sunil,

I think it is wrong to take a stand for or against someone you don't even know. Therefore I suggest you to post less bias and more rational and logical comments. If you want to claim that all muslim desis living in Britain consider themselves Pakistani please give us proof to validify and verify the claim. Otherwise stop posting rubbish and cynical comments for the heck sake.

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## Evian

I think after listening to all the gibberish here, I am officially OFFENDED!! 

How can someone be so totally unreasonable, not know what he's trying to say and yet say enough nonsense to make some idiotic point?

Sunil, what are you exactly trying to say? If you are having a problem interacting in a civil manner then I suggest you take a little walk to the thinking corner and come back after a  break. Specially since you don't know what you're talking about.

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## sunil73

> I think after listening to all the gibberish here, I am officially OFFENDED!! 
> 
> How can someone be so totally unreasonable, not know what he's trying to say and yet say enough nonsense to make some idiotic point?
> 
> Sunil, what are you exactly trying to say? If you are having a problem interacting in a civil manner then I suggest you take a little walk to the thinking corner and come back after a  break. Specially since you don't know what you're talking about.


What a riot,  if you dont understand me then why start in the beginning? You been arguing with me for sometime, have a look once again your posts may be its remind what was you up to. But it been clear that you hypocritically deny my questions and points. And in the end you start personal attacked. Do have a look on posts, and educate yourself. 

You proven already that you are a hypocrite.

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## NaUmAn MaSoOd

gud info thou

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## NaUmAn MaSoOd

gud info thou

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## sunil73

> Sunil,
> 
> I think it is wrong to take a stand for or against someone you don't even know. Therefore I suggest you to post less bias and more rational and logical comments. If you want to claim that all muslim desis living in Britain consider themselves Pakistani please give us proof to validify and verify the claim. Otherwise stop posting rubbish and cynical comments for the heck sake.



Dude..i appreciate you address me, but why you forget to read properly from the beginning what been written and said? And how on earth your wits consider my links and ground base facts bias?  Do you have conscious boy? Or just hanging fools around. Every thing is on the forum, you could argue with me on points, or ignore me if dont agree. But dont play hierocracy.  

My whole motion was, if muslims consider that west segregated them and they dont practice full rights, then ever muslim thought what their unjust behavior with their own minorities.  And I had given links, need more I could give more. But dont come to me saying not correct. Contact the website which are prominent NGOs. 


If you are not educated on Pakistan, read Christian community attacked by muslims, because one muslim said that Christian man had burned the quran.

(See this)
http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail... 
http://in.christiantoday.com/news/wor_543.htm 

And now read this, after destroying 3 churches and Christians school, muslim person said he was mistaken, Christian man didnt burned the quran. Because of one muslims false statement, Christian were brutally attacked and ransacked by mulsims 

And now read this, after destroying 3 churches and Christians school, muslim person said he was mistaken, Christian man didnt burned the quran. Because of one muslims false statement, Christian were brutally attacked and ransacked by mulsims 

(see this)
http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail... 
http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail... 

One could understands easily how stupid were those who listen to that false person first and believe on him without any trial. 

Then how foolish and fanatics were those muslim priests (mullahs) who called from microphone to muslims to attacked on Christians. 

More recent news churches burned in Pakistan. 

http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail... 
http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail...

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## NaUmAn MaSoOd

kooolll

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## sunil73

> Sunil,
> 
> I think it is wrong to take a stand for or against someone you don't even know. Therefore I suggest you to post less bias and more rational and logical comments. If you want to claim that all muslim desis living in Britain consider themselves Pakistani please give us proof to validify and verify the claim. Otherwise stop posting rubbish and cynical comments for the heck sake.



And how could you said its bias?  My family, relative and friends still living most parts of Pakistan. And many are eye witness of all those events which mentioned in the web links. And let me tell you its not difficult to contact any Christian or church organization in Pakistan, its cost only minutes.

Next time come with some reasoning. Dont call me to dismay you.

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## Endurer

> Originally Posted by snakhtar @ Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:58 pm
> 
> Sunil,
> 
> I think it is wrong to take a stand for or against someone you don't even know. Therefore I suggest you to post less bias and more rational and logical comments. If you want to claim that all muslim desis living in Britain consider themselves Pakistani please give us proof to validify and verify the claim. Otherwise stop posting rubbish and cynical comments for the heck sake.
> 
> 
> 
> And how could you said its bias?  My family, relative and friends still living most parts of Pakistan. And many are eye witness of all those events which mentioned in the web links. And let me tell you its not difficult to contact any Christian or church organization in Pakistan, its cost only minutes.
> ...


Buddy, I'm living in the same country as of your cousins, friends and family. I do perform my friday prayers, I was born in a non-muslim country, I was taught in a french school owned and operated by christian missionaries and I have more christian friends in the area than muslims. The thing is that how on God's green earth can you forge the whole thing up? That of your so called reference is not to be believed upon. Had this been an issue here, one would have seen the whole country burn. Why are such incidents reported only at isolated websites that even in their *INDIAN* edition?

Racism or xenophobia are not the problems of Pakistan alone, the whole of the planet earth carries such persons/groups. I can fill the space with hundreds of legitimate news on the topic, given that you are not already enlightened with the daily life outside and inside Pakistan.

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## Evian

Sunil, if you had really read and understood what everyone tried to tell you from the very beginning of this thread then it wouldn't have come to this. If you sling mud at others then you should be ready to get some on yourself. If you think that people are jumping to conclusions about you then you are mistaken. Just like people who think every man with a beard is a muslim. Or that all christians in pakistan belong to a certain (no names) class. I have said this before and will say it again that racism is all over the world! Do you not see that? Or is your view limited to the rim of the kuann where you are stuck? Or maybe all this anger comes from memories of an unfortunate childhood, wallah alam. May allah let you come to peace.

Go live as a brown man in any western country and you'll find out for yourself. You may think yourself worldly but man, you are not rational. You think the goras will take you in? WRONG!! You will remain an outsider because you ARE and outsider. They just don't do anything because they get punished for discrimination. 

If you think minorities are persecuted in pakistan, you are DEAD wrong!! EVERY POOR MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD IS PERSECUTED!! Talk about ingnorance. You will keep on tooting your own damn horn and not realize that this IS part of living in a third world country. It has nothing to do with what religion you are. Have you not seen the people that died in the earthquake? Was their plight not enough to open your eyes?  Sad to see that after such an incident we are sitting here arguing and pointing fingers.

It amazes me that fellow pakistanis will stop at nothing in defaming the image of the country where they were born. A muslim and christian are supposed to be brothers in faith, but it's people like you and the ones setting fire to churches and imam bargahs that break the ties of the hearts. I am ashamed when I hear such crap from people who have put their minds to sleep and sold their souls to the media by accepting the brain-washing they dish out. 

I faced a lot of problems growing up in pakistan but that doesn't mean I'll go scream bloody discrimination every time someone cuts me off, because believe it or not, at some point we have to come to terms to it. When pakistan gets educated and developed enough then I assure you things will be different because there will be rules and they will get implemented. It will take time, but I assure you, we'll get there with or without the likes of you.

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## sunil73

> Originally Posted by sunil73 @ Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:30 am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by snakhtar @ Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:58 pm
> 
> ...




You always make on sense. Lol 
I laughing my heads off, Dude try to reason before coming with some discovery. 

What make difference if you have more Christian friends than muslims,   does its lower the ratio Christian persecution in Pakistan. And I see no difference if you studies in Christian school, as you still has low wits.   

Have you understand properly what I said before? Or just giving to try your jihadi vision. Whole Pakistani Christian community witness of that events, and if your insecure sentiments wont admit that, it is not a problem because your denial wouldnt mislead anyone. And for Gods sake do some research before coming to me, the website is not INDIAN, as you all thought Indian or American behind every rain. 

Go to this website, this is Pakistani Christian website, dont believe than do some RESEARCH.

http://www.siloampak.org/main.htm

now scroll down and read these topic there. 

1)THOU SHALT NOT LET ANY ONE BURN THE CHURCH.
2) Mob torches 3 churches near Nankana

now here some more webs

http://www.ucb.co.uk/index.cfm?itemid=152
http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Pakistan.htm
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/10825.htm

And next time if you come to me, discuss the above-mentioned topic, otherwise ignore and dont address me. 

As for racism and discrimination, its true no society immune from it. But muslims countries like Pakistan worse example of intolerance to other faith and religions. And hence muslims are migrants from muslims country in west, but dont live in same circumstances as other religious minority in Pakistan and other muslims lands. 
I strongly doubted you live outside Pakistan or enough education to staid some topics.

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## sunil73

> Sunil, if you had really read and understood what everyone tried to tell you from the very beginning of this thread then it wouldn't have come to this. If you sling mud at others then you should be ready to get some on yourself. If you think that people are jumping to conclusions about you then you are mistaken. Just like people who think every man with a beard is a muslim. Or that all christians in pakistan belong to a certain (no names) class. I have said this before and will say it again that racism is all over the world! Do you not see that? Or is your view limited to the rim of the kuann where you are stuck? Or maybe all this anger comes from memories of an unfortunate childhood, wallah alam. May allah let you come to peace.
> 
> Go live as a brown man in any western country and you'll find out for yourself. You may think yourself worldly but man, you are not rational. You think the goras will take you in? WRONG!! You will remain an outsider because you ARE and outsider. They just don't do anything because they get punished for discrimination. 
> 
> If you think minorities are persecuted in pakistan, you are DEAD wrong!! EVERY POOR MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD IS PERSECUTED!! Talk about ingnorance. You will keep on tooting your own  horn and not realize that this IS part of living in a third world country. It has nothing to do with what religion you are. Have you not seen the people that died in the earthquake? Was their plight not enough to open your eyes?  Sad to see that after such an incident we are sitting here arguing and pointing fingers. .



GET A GRIP.

From the beginning your all posts irrational and mambo jumbo of minor mindset. And dont play Ama bhi here, you will not sell nothing to me posturing like that. 

From the beginning I had shown and held that this is not bona fide right of muslims to claim insecurity or discrimination. 

I been to this website from the last 6 moths, been through many topics of forums, and its delude me ppl crying or playing hypocritically been discriminated by west. My attention was to shows that  those living glass house dont have to through stones on other. And I do achieve what I was attending to. But let Lord Almighty be the judge.   




> It amazes me that fellow pakistanis will stop at nothing in defaming the image of the country where they were born. A muslim and christian are supposed to be brothers in faith, but it's people like you and the ones setting fire to churches and imam bargahs that break the ties of the hearts. I am ashamed when I hear such crap from people who have put their minds to sleep and sold their souls to the media by accepting the brain-washing they dish out. 
> 
> I faced a lot of problems growing up in pakistan but that doesn't mean I'll go scream bloody discrimination every time someone cuts me off, because believe it or not, at some point we have to come to terms to it. When pakistan gets educated and developed enough then I assure you things will be different because there will be rules and they will get implemented. It will take time, but I assure you, we'll get there with or without the likes of you.



Wow, in the end you do on climax of your hypocrisy. Again you crying for unjust or discrimination of west for brown ppl. 

I am living in Netherlands from the last 7 years, hope you do believe me, but I havent faces any problem yet. This shows how cunning you are in favorable to the country where you living and getting every advantages of good live. USA, if you really residing there, one of utmost example of immigrants ppl. 

If you faces real problem there then you wont have to reside there anymore, go back Pakistan and make your society MODEL from there for other. Then you have enough credibility to attain the attention of others.

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## noorzei

Please All of you, stop for a moment, we all Pakistani. Sunil, me, evian, endurer and many others, no mater what belief holding but Pakistan does joint us together. I read all the forum many time, I have no problem with Sunils point of view, as I aware there are extremist essence which persecuted our Christian minority, in response of what ever happen in west. Our Pakistani Christian brothers are not scapegoat of west, then why some extremist target them in the name of islam. Why not we peaceful Muslims condemn them openly and try to diminish the atmosphere of hatred or Christian discrimination. 

Works of Christian community wont ignore in Pakistan, they did a lot for the development of Pakistan. Schools, Hospitals are most focal points of Christian service for Pakistan. You will be surprise, my uncle is major in army, he told us once, most army personal reached to success, are educated from Christian schools. But still some garbage mind look at Christians as easy or soft target. This is insanity, i had notice these attacked on christian in the news.

And might this offend Sunil and many others, its normal. But we have to thing about this, resolve about this before this hatred getting strong in our hearts. And you know our enemy will get advantage of it. I hope that Sunil also understand me, as I respect him Pakistani. 

To evian and endurers,  We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesnt mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him. 

Accepting faults doesnt made anyone lesser but put on dignity to lead other in right path.  I remember , we four brother quarrel many times a day but in the end we ate together and laughing before going to bed. 

Its true that we never committed any persecution but we does close our eyes and let it be. and now I come to realize that we have to stood up and take part before its to late. 

I think collaboration with Sunils (and many other, as I hard same sentiments from my Christian friends) view points give less room to those namely, long beard muslims and minor the chance of any religious persecution in our country. 

I hope all of you agree with me and stop this, in the end we remain Pakistani brothers. Please think about this. 

Waslam.

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## snakhtar

Sunil,

Don't take comments so personnally. I did not mean to offend you with my comments. If you consider all muslims as murderers it is perfectly fine. You have the liberty to think whatever you want to think [just like every body else here]. But please don't enforce your ideology on other people. We read newspapers and magazines too, and we as a musims understand, how many christians have persecuted muslims and vice versa. 

If you watch Michael Moore's documentary 'Farenheit 9/11' you will learn how two muslims civilizations have been completely destroyed by the crusade war waged by the conservative christians of America [Bush and Cheney] and Europe [Tony Blair]. 

Secondly, if you read indian muslims history, you will learn how British goverments [christian fanatics] had massacred thousands of muslim families, after the 1857 war of independence. And had raped almost one million muslim women.

Third check the following links out and witness the persecution of muslims:

http://www.mwlusa.org/presentations/speech_persec.html

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/08/20/uzbeki1376.htm



CAN YOU JUSTIFY SUCH CHRISTIANS PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS

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## Evian

@ Noorzei:

"To evian and endurers, We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesnt mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him. "

No one said anything in favor of discrimination, in case you didn't notice the posts in the beginning of the thread. I had already tried to clear this misunderstanding with sunil. Not one of us applauded the discrimination, you claim to read the whole forum, well you missed an important piece of info. 

Discrimination happens to everyone in Pakistan, in case you didn't know....As a man, woman, child. You are missing my point here, it's just like the west screaming discrimination against women in islam when they are doing it themselves. If there are social and ethical issues in pakistan, they are evident in all religions, castes and sections of society. A poor woman/man or child will not get the required medical treatment because of lack of money, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone here. If a woman is targeted for the sins the men in her family committed, gang raped, it's fine..all's fair in war. A child will go without basic education and nutrition but that's fine, just usual day in the life of a person. People get wrong treatment in the hospital and die for no reason, oh too bad! Shit happens. 

But we can all have a nice discussion, condemning the persecution of a certain sect of the society and feel good about ourselves. Fine. Have it your way, but is your zameer satisfied? Does that justify all that's going on around us? Or are you all too self absorbed to see that?

Oh, yes...we'll all remain pakistani so-called brothers after getting all this crap.

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## snakhtar

Sunil,

Let me inform you as a friend that your sources are not as authentic as they should be to justify your argument. Good and bad muslims are every where just like good and bad hindus, christians, and jews. So just concentrating your whole argument against the muslims would not help you win any points. Please next time do try to produce counterarguments, so that the readers don't worry that you are one hypocrite fanatic yourself. If you go back and read your own comments you will notice for yourself that all the arguments that you have provided up to this point against muslims reflects some ethnocentric motives.

As a friend I apologize if any fool from our community has inflicted harm on you and any other individual representing Pakistani minority group. There was once a time when muslims, christians, hindus, and jews use to live together as brothers, and as a peace loving civilization. But the growing fanaticism, unemployment, curruption, and apathy in all countries and society has certainly put humanity and all relationships on a brink. I regret much of what world has recently seen and gone through. And send a message of peace to all of you.   

Please brother and sisters try to remember us as good friends and well wishers of yours. May peace be on you.

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## Evian

@ Sunil:

"I am living in Netherlands from the last 7 years, hope you do believe me, but I havent faces any problem yet. This shows how cunning you are in favorable to the country where you living and getting every advantages of good live. USA, if you really residing there, one of utmost example of immigrants ppl."


Well, sunil you probably haven't been there long enough, oh it will happen someday and you'll not even realize what hit you because you're too busy thinking of the "cruel" (according to you) pakistanis that it'll go right past your behind. It takes a little perceptiveness to see that one, specially since you are not even tuned to the culture of the Netherlands.

I am a muslim and I step away from people who discriminate against other religions, culture, color, sex, status etc. Because it is wrong in my religion, my book  and because I was raised with moral and ethical values. This does not mean that I will shut up when you say smack about muslims or pakistanis, wether living in pakistan or abroad. What's wrong is and shall remain wrong. No one gets special treatment. As for the west, like I said jo baat bhalat hai, woh ghalat hi hai. Sirf pakistani ke karnay se koi gunah gunah-e-kabeerah nahin ho jata.

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## noorzei

> @ Noorzei:
> 
> "To evian and endurers, We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesnt mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him. "
> 
> No one said anything in favor of discrimination, in case you didn't notice the posts in the beginning of the thread. I had already tried to clear this misunderstanding with sunil. Not one of us applauded the discrimination, you claim to read the whole forum, well you missed an important piece of info. 
> 
> Discrimination happens to everyone in Pakistan, in case you didn't know....As a man, woman, child. You are missing my point here, it's just like the west screaming discrimination against women in islam when they are doing it themselves. If there are social and ethical issues in pakistan, they are evident in all religions, castes and sections of society. A poor woman/man or child will not get the required medical treatment because of lack of money, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone here. If a woman is targeted for the sins the men in her family committed, gang raped, it's fine..all's fair in war. A child will go without basic education and nutrition but that's fine, just usual day in the life of a person. People get wrong treatment in the hospital and die for no reason, oh too bad!  happens. 
> 
> But we can all have a nice discussion, condemning the persecution of a certain sect of the society and feel good about ourselves. Fine. Have it your way, but is your zameer satisfied? Does that justify all that's going on around us? Or are you all too self absorbed to see that?
> ...



Its mean you didnt understand my attention, which to prevent further depression in minorities. 

But your manner shows that you never have personality to resolve, but to propagate and exaggerator things. One child could understand, that my attention was pure. I wish that other people could also called you back, as you been irrational even to my attention. 

Did I not try to resolve the things, from all perspective? What do you want?  that minority Pakistani rose up and ask more rights or free land in Pakistan? Is that you want? My attention was try to listen views of minorities, coz

THAT  MAKE  HEALTHY  ATMOSPHERE  IN  PAKISTAN  SOCIETY. 

And if your mind hasnt has that approach please clam and ignore and leave. 

Many would agree with me, we want healthy Pakistan where minorities can share and heard. This is picture of better Pakistan. 

About you cry over crime rate or literacy rate or poverty, all due to corruption of the our governments. All governments were corrupted since 1960. I remembered one of my Korean class mate (who was on foreign exchange program on Karachi University) told me that before 1960 Pakistan helped Korea, providing rise, flour and other food items. Now you could see Pakistan looking for every help from Korea. Motor way project from Karachi to Islamabad is favor of Korean governments. You see how our government corruption led us, from top to bottom. Wasting assets and resources for unconcern objectives. Where poor become poorest and wealthy  wealthiest. 

And Healthy Pakistan is answer of  that corruption. Mark my words.

Waslam wabarukatehu

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## sunil73

> Sunil,
> 
> Don't take comments so personnally. I did not mean to offend you with my comments. If you consider all muslims as murderers it is perfectly fine. You have the liberty to think whatever you want to think [just like every body else here]. But please don't enforce your ideology on other people. We read newspapers and magazines too, and we as a musims understand, how many christians have persecuted muslims and vice versa. 
> 
> If you watch Michael Moore's documentary 'Farenheit 9/11' you will learn how two muslims civilizations have been completely destroyed by the crusade war waged by the conservative christians of America [Bush and Cheney] and Europe [Tony Blair]. 
> 
> Secondly, if you read indian muslims history, you will learn how British goverments [christian fanatics] had massacred thousands of muslim families, after the 1857 war of independence. And had raped almost one million muslim women.
> 
> Third check the following links out and witness the persecution of muslims:
> ...


My concentration wasnt to disgrace some religion as whole. But from the beginning I opposed this forum, when somebody said,  7/7 bomber was not Pakistani. But in reality, yes there are, coz some fanatic factors who been behind brainwashing and all hatred. Now, watch that video

http://www.nefafoundation.org/video/protest.w...

From the beginning people wrestle me without reasoning. 
I notice that every Tom Dick Harry, playing his/her pathetic unreasonable melody.

But, Why on earth you continue saying my sources are not corrects? Didnt you notice when I said, I HAVE STILL FAMILY, RELATIVES & FRIENDS living back in Pakistan? Why its difficult to you understand this aspect? 

Your denial wont change anything? The ground facts will remain different and whole world have quite knowledge with personal and eye witness accounts. 

Why you are not accepting news from media when they talked about Christian persecution. 

Hence you will recognize western media when they talked about inhumanity in Gantanumo bay or  pictures of Abu grab prison or when British personal beating Iraqis boys. Coz these all news also came from same western media, and when you consider those news vigorously why its painful to accept news about Christian persecution in Pakistan or else where. 

Here you go again, you still refer me without hesitation Michael moors 
Investigation movie. Its also produce by western liberal media, isnt? 

I understand how much its inspire and attract you and others. Could you produce such diverse style news about Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? 

Could you answer me this, why Michael moors theory not been recognizing widely? If his theory or investigation has solid ground, it could be reach to court long ago. As Clintons scandal with Monica, or water gate scandal of Richard Nixon. 

The American didnt attack on Afghanistan or Iraq in the name of religion. You are not watching Christian ruining here and there and claiming life in the name of their religion or chanting kill or beheaded other in the name of Christianity. 

Did you saw any Christian behaving like that? 

Western countries did propagate their agenda to rule other, but not to project Christianity, if they did or does, then the situation will be difference. I had hoped they could, than your claim become more solid. Right? 

Your question, English persecution on muslims or shall is say Asian community. 

My response is, did English people came to convert the Asian ppl into Christianity? If yes then why didnt they convert Christian as they could do, I mean by force? The history witnesses that English government never demand or try to convert people in Christianity in south Asia.  

If they did, then I assure you there will be Christian majority and influence in indo-pak. Just like after islamic invasion thousand year old Egyptian, Tunisia, Turkish or Persian (and many other) civilization been changed forcefully. 

Yes English government was fanatic, but fanatic to occupy other lands and govern other nations. They were not fanatic Christians, if they were then majority will be Christian in south aisa. And secondly they will not allow muslims immigrants to settle in UK. And you know that mostly immigrants were and are muslims, from third world poor muslims countries in Europe or in USA. You do know that, dont you? 

Its reveal that western societies never been anti-islam, as vast majority immigrants are muslims. But now the situation is changing very quickly in west, and the responsible are those muslims extremist groups which never been condemn by other muslims. 


Go there and sign the petition and safe a life.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4831426...

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## sunil73

> Sunil,
> 
> Let me inform you as a friend that your sources are not as authentic as they should be to justify your argument. Good and bad muslims are every where just like good and bad hindus, christians, and jews. So just concentrating your whole argument against the muslims would not help you win any points. Please next time do try to produce counterarguments, so that the readers don't worry that you are one hypocrite fanatic yourself. If you go back and read your own comments you will notice for yourself that all the arguments that you have provided up to this point against muslims reflects some ethnocentric motives.
> 
> As a friend I apologize if any fool from our community has inflicted harm on you and any other individual representing Pakistani minority group. There was once a time when muslims, christians, hindus, and jews use to live together as brothers, and as a peace loving civilization. But the growing fanaticism, unemployment, curruption, and apathy in all countries and society has certainly put humanity and all relationships on a brink. I regret much of what world has recently seen and gone through. And send a message of peace to all of you.   
> 
> Please brother and sisters try to remember us as good friends and well wishers of yours. May peace be on you.




friend, 

As I said my attention wasnt disgrace islam, and I am sorry if you got that impression from me. Its not true that I am against all muslims. How you come to this point? 

I am agree with you that there was time when different faiths live together, you might not accept, but I still hope for that, yes this is true. I have always soft corner for Pakistan and its people as its been my home always, no matter where I live and how long. 

My concentration was, my Pakistani muslim friends should release that how one minority felt in Pakistani society. I thankful to you, for understanding and come to realize the factors behind all that hate and abhorrence.  

I hope that other also understand and agree with me that better Pakistan is for all faiths, and all faiths could make better Pakistan.

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## sunil73

@ Evian

Well here you go again, with more heresy, does your feeble and bigot arguments ever ended. And what is that crap? Every one knows that first couple of years brought most hardship and hurdle to one who migrates to west. And as soon as one lived more, he/she integrated in the society, but only if he really wants to. And if I dont have problem with my first couple years, then it will be never in future as I am integrated in the society. Your feeble conclusion never makes sense. lol

Why you always try to plump heresy? Your views are full with mean mental approach and cunning emotions. 

I am curious to understand, that do you really live in USA? Because USA has most diverse ideological people live together. Then why you not accepting same thing diverse ideology from Pakistani. 

You seems to negative towards USA or west, then why you living their? Why you are so cunning to getting advantages and misusing liberty and human rights? And this is same attitude of other Muslims. Now you agree with me when I say, people learn from each other. 

Now here comes the interesting part, if you not faithful to the country where you residing and getting advantages, how come you expect Pakistani minorities to be faithful 

Why you putting words in my mouth?

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## sunil73

@ Noorzei


I admire your views and insight, your dream of healthy Pakistan will come true, just we need few more people like you.    -__-

And I am sorry if my points somehow I hurt you, but that was response to some irrational summits.  

Dude thanks for understanding and sharing. 

Best wishes.

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