# Bethak - The Desi Lounge > Freedom Castle >  Gay culture in Pakistan

## Endurer

First & foremost pardon me if the topic is a little over the edge. I have been looking around at different places over the web & all I see is Pakistani homosexuals taking over every single social networking website that I am directly or indirectly a part of. They are openly exchanging telephone numbers, sharing their stories e.t.c. and are being largely ignored by the law enforcement agencies.

I am not suggesting that their should be a crackdown on them, though, I do would like to bring it out in the open because there are serious repercussions when you are not raising sexual awareness in the country where homosexuality is more common than heterosexualism.

Whats your take on it?

Note: This topic is not for minors.

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## Omar

Well a very gud step ahead.

I think this is going on continously cuz ppl those not concern with internet have no Knwledge of that and our media didnt show any report,documentry or deabate on these topics cuz most of ppl simply avoid that.

We have to bring this problem in frnt of those who are not aware of that with the help of media or internet.

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## Endurer

Our media is still struggling to stand on it's own. Nevertheless, thats not an issue I'd like be discussed here.

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## mytonse

I am not shocked seeing this topic.
Feel sorry to say this but the gays are on the rise where the male-female interactivity is negliegible like in most islamic countries.

Its really horrible.As living in Saudi i have many a times seen all this going on.I am drifting off-topic.Something must be done.All this is a result of the uncontrollable attitude.

Want to hear what other's have to say ?

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## Endurer

> I am not shocked seeing this topic.
> Feel sorry to say this but *the gays are on the rise where the male-female interactivity is negliegible* like in most islamic countries.
> 
> Its really horrible.As living in Saudi i have many a times seen all this going on.I am drifting off-topic.Something must be done.All this is a result of the uncontrollable attitude.
> 
> Want to hear what other's have to say ?


You are absolutely right bro. Thats where the problem lies, males of our socities (particularly teens) are prone to homosexualism because they don't get to interact with members of the opposite sex. Media, at the other hand, adds more to it by broadcasting sexually provocative programs resulting in the arousal of sexual fantasies amongst teens. I will pass the url of this topic (and the child abuse one) to the authorities once we have gathered substantial amount of replies.

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## mytonse

That would be very right on your behalf.

The best way as i see it is to severly punish the culprits so that fear of getting mobbed overcomes their faantasies.

The World is surely to end with these stuffs going on.

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## bleh

I don't see no harm, an guy being gay or an lady being lesbian, it's their individual choice and decisions they made upon themselves and their partner.

I don't see no harm an man being gay, it's being acceptable throught society. And today's generation has totaly flipped off than it was, more freedom is being taken and proably this just one of the causes an guy falling in  love with it's own sex.

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## dsjeya

sex between two consenting individuals is a private affair,whether they belong to same sex or opposite sex is immaterial
the law enforcing agencies should step in only when there is violence,intimidation or children are involved

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## Shahrose Khan

disgusting... I am not familiar with all the terms used in this topic, but I dont agree with anything said by the author. If your a paki, shame on you, if your someone else, STOP IT!

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## xeon

I dont agree with anyone of you over here. I can see the side effects of educating sex in western world. So dont think its a good idea. I heard and I believe " Buraee ka jitna zikar kero utnee phailtee hai" 

Quome Loot ka tu suna hee hoga na? kiya un ko sex ka ilm nahi tha. Abhi Media per already yeh discussion aanai lagai hain ab main yeh bhi daikho ga ke kafi quantity main gays saamnai bhi aa jain ge. 

Sirif or sirif Mazhab sai dooree is kee wajah hai. Sorry Shahrose bro aap ko bura feel hua.

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## *Saira*

Being gay or lesbian is wrong and nobody can change this fact.Period!:nono;

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## Shahrose Khan

> I dont agree with anyone of you over here. I can see the side effects of educating sex in western world. So dont think its a good idea. I heard and I believe " Buraee ka jitna zikar kero utnee phailtee hai" 
> 
> Quome Loot ka tu suna hee hoga na? kiya un ko sex ka ilm nahi tha. Abhi Media per already yeh discussion aanai lagai hain ab main yeh bhi daikho ga ke kafi quantity main gays saamnai bhi aa jain ge. 
> 
> Sirif or sirif Mazhab sai dooree is kee wajah hai. Sorry Shahrose bro aap ko bura feel hua.


Thanks to you and Saira for not being idiotic like the others.

but what is the case of Qoume Loot?

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## mytonse

@Shahrose,if other views arent as same as yours or own your terms ,it doesnt mean its idiotic.

"Gays and Lesbians  discredit the basic fact of creating a man and women and differetiating their characterstics and functions.thne you suppose it would be best if all were men ??

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## dsjeya

now a days gays are respectably called males having sex with male -msm.It is a psychological problem. i have met some passive males they say they feel no attraction towards females.

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## mytonse

But then i dsyeja would you agree if all were to be males ??Question lies on the whole of society not with a few males/females with psycological probs.

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## Muzi

I'm telling ya all its def the media
"Negative images shown by the media, infests in the young minds faster than bacteria"
yeah Omar man I do agree with you!
but in my opionon Gay culture in pak should be banned, I mean can peaople there not read the Quran?

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## mytonse

Muzi,

When the madrassa sex abuse case was debated here and bought up,religion remains at standoff.I beleive in Madrassas QURAN is main subject of Knowledge.It s a global problem and yes media is playing both sides.But afterall isnt it everyones job.

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## hkhawaja

Just do a search on google and you'll be amazed to see how many south asian gay support organizations are out there. And you'll be shocked to see some for muslims specifically.

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## dsjeya

banning any thing is not the answer
education,counseling and safe practices is the need of the hour

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## niceguy

> First & foremost pardon me if the topic is a little over the edge. I have been looking around at different places over the web & all I see is Pakistani homosexuals taking over every single social networking website that I am directly or indirectly a part of. They are openly exchanging telephone numbers, sharing their stories e.t.c. and are being largely ignored by the law enforcement agencies.
> 
> I am not suggesting that their should be a crackdown on them, though, I do would like to bring it out in the open because there are serious repercussions when you are not raising sexual awareness in the country where *homosexuality is more common than heterosexualism.*
> 
> Whats your take on it?
> 
> Note: This topic is not for minors.


I highly doubt that. If u see all these things happening, i suggest u look away. It's none of ur business to jump into other ppl's affairs and dictate how they should live their life.




> That would be very right on your behalf.
> 
> The best way as i see it is to severly punish the culprits so that fear of getting mobbed overcomes their faantasies.
> 
> The World is surely to end with these stuffs going on.


yes... y don't we punish everyone who don't follow social norms





> disgusting... I am not familiar with all the terms used in this topic, but I dont agree with anything said by the author. If your a paki, shame on you, if your someone else, STOP IT!


Shame on u... u just cause more hate in the world.




> Being gay or lesbian is wrong and nobody can change this fact.Period!:nono;


grow up

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## dsjeya

thank u niceguy
you are correct in saying because somethings are different need not be condemned out right
even husband and wife enjoy sex in different ways apart from the natural one

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## villies

> Being gay or lesbian is wrong and nobody can change this fact.Period!:nono;


Everything is posible miss Saira

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## villies

We can try atleast Once...

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## dsjeya

gays and lesbians are also humanbeings

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## Muzi

Look ya all this Gay culture and everything is simply just wrong!!!

1. We would not be having this gay culture if it wasnt for our own faults, firstly we have a country which is run by dictatorship and a country that has betrayed it ownself many many times. Typical example of this would: Dr.Qadeer Khan selling out information about Pakistan's nuclear programmes to other countries despite the fact that Dr. G.D Alam told him not to, the first time he was going to do that.
"Qadeer bhai mein pata rahan hoon apko ye mat karen hum hero se zero ho jayen gain"
2. Lack of education, the government is spending a tremendous amount on military but nothing on Pakistan's education system, I mean singers like Abrar are making schools there for kids.
"Education is the main power that an individual can have to defeat everything  in his/her way"
3. Following the western culture, again its a lack of education but also the people who are mainly being attracted to this culture are the high class in Pakistan because they are the ones who have an access to go on the internet or to watch total nonsense programmes on t.v. They dont see that the people who are gay or bisexual in these countries are just not considered to eligible sometimes from the public eye.
4. What religion does Pakistan have? Islam, and in Islam it says that you cannot do this thing, if you do this thing then your automatically not a Muslim anymore, your seen as a Jew. Religion is blind faith and to follow it is up to us but if some of us dont do it, all I can do is give you information like this but cannot force you to practice Islam.
5. Rap music has made the teenage population very violent and to try new things, I personally listen to rap music because I like the beats that they not the fact that what they do in the videos or anything, you have to also listen to good rap music like: Nas-I can.
6. Lastly I would just say that do whatever you want to do with your life but, just to remind you the Quran is still there for all of us to read and to follow it PROPERLY. At judgment day God will ask me, that if I had the knowledge to goodness why didnt I spread it? Well I just spread whatever I have,  now its all up to you.

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## niceguy

> I'm telling ya all its def the media
> "Negative images shown by the media, infests in the young minds faster than bacteria"
> yeah Omar man I do agree with you!
> but in my opionon Gay culture in pak should be banned, I mean can peaople there not read the Quran?


Running a whole a country on religion makes minorities invisible.




> Look ya all this Gay culture and everything is simply just wrong!!!
> 
> 1. We would not be having this gay culture if it wasnt for our own faults, firstly we have a country which is run by dictatorship and a country that has betrayed it ownself many many times. Typical example of this would: Dr.Qadeer Khan selling out information about Pakistan's nuclear programmes to other countries despite the fact that Dr. G.D Alam told him not to, the first time he was going to do that.
> "Qadeer bhai mein pata rahan hoon apko ye mat karen hum hero se zero ho jayen gain"
> 2. Lack of education, the government is spending a tremendous amount on military but nothing on Pakistan's education system, I mean singers like Abrar are making schools there for kids.
> "Education is the main power that an individual can have to defeat everything  in his/her way"
> 3. Following the western culture, again its a lack of education but also the people who are mainly being attracted to this culture are the high class in Pakistan because they are the ones who have an access to go on the internet or to watch total nonsense programmes on t.v. They dont see that the people who are gay or bisexual in these countries are just not considered to eligible sometimes from the public eye.
> 4. What religion does Pakistan have? Islam, and in Islam it says that you cannot do this thing, if you do this thing then your automatically not a Muslim anymore, your seen as a Jew. Religion is blind faith and to follow it is up to us but if some of us dont do it, all I can do is give you information like this but cannot force you to practice Islam.
> 5. Rap music has made the teenage population very violent and to try new things, I personally listen to rap music because I like the beats that they not the fact that what they do in the videos or anything, you have to also listen to good rap music like: Nas-I can.
> 6. Lastly I would just say that do whatever you want to do with your life but, just to remind you the Quran is still there for all of us to read and to follow it PROPERLY. At judgment day God will ask me, that if I had the knowledge to goodness why didnt I spread it? Well I just spread whatever I have,  now its all up to you.



1. What does that have to do with gay culture?
2. Education and brain washing are 2 different things
3. You don't have to be rich to be gay
4. Not following a religion makes u a jew?
5. Rap music does not promote ppl to be gay. Most rap music videos have women dancing half naked.
6. Being a good person goes a long way.

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## Endurer

> I highly doubt that.* If u see all these things happening, i suggest u look away*.


Are you not contradicting whatever you're trying to impose below?




> It's none of ur business to jump into other ppl's affairs and dictate how they should live their life.


But I have an *opinion* and the *right* to share it?

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## Muzi

@Nice guy "Running a whole a country on religion makes minorities invisible"
Go pick up a history book!!!

1. what it says is that if da country has distortion in da strt den how long did u expect b4 ppl strted wlking to da rong path.
2.  I know i neva sed neting bout brain watching!!! jus sd lack of education leading to dis stuff!!! READ PROPERLY
3. yeah u do cuz majority rich ppl onli hve da knowledge of being gay in pakistan, the poor ppl dont evn know if da word "gay" exists
4. Not following ISLAM makes u a jew....read ma comments properly
5. yeah sorry went way off point der sorry.
6. doesnt hurt in trying tho does it? especially at a young age!

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## niceguy

> Are you not contradicting whatever you're trying to impose below?
> 
> But I have an *opinion* and the *right* to share it?


i didn't impose anything. You do have the right to voice your opinion... i never said u didn't





> @Nice guy "Running a whole a country on religion makes minorities invisible"
> Go pick up a history book!!!
> 
> 1. what it says is that if da country has distortion in da strt den how long did u expect b4 ppl strted wlking to da rong path.
> 2.  I know i neva sed neting bout brain watching!!! jus sd lack of education leading to dis stuff!!! READ PROPERLY
> 3. yeah u do cuz majority rich ppl onli hve da knowledge of being gay in pakistan, the poor ppl dont evn know if da word "gay" exists
> 4. Not following ISLAM makes u a jew....read ma comments properly
> 5. yeah sorry went way off point der sorry.
> 6. doesnt hurt in trying tho does it? especially at a young age!


1. this logic still doesn't make sense... 
2. Why would u say ppl need to be more educated then? This topic was about homosexuality so i assumed u meant telling ppl that homosexuality is wrong/evil or how ever u wanna describe it. What else am i supposed to assume? It's like me coming into this topic and saying "i like apples".
3. umm... ya... there's been gay ppl long b4 tv/internet existed. Don't start assuming things, poor ppl aren't stupid.
4. Read it again, those 2 aren't the only religions that exist.

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## AaDi

yar endurer .. kin chakron main parh gey ho .. this is an 'independent' nation .. kal ko .. they will want to bang dogs .. horses (probably return da favour) .. nahi bhai log .. ap jo merzi karo .. :biggrin:

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## Endurer

> thank u niceguy
> you are correct in saying because somethings are different need not be condemned out right
> even husband and wife enjoy sex in different ways apart from the natural one


What if one of my 30 year old male friend had sex with your 16 year old son? what if your son enjoys it (rape is subjective)? What'd you do? I am sure you won't condemn it.. right?

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## AaDi

toh kya .. according to him .. its allowed .. kid is 16 .. independent .. os ka jo dil karay woh kar sakta hai .. i mean .. y wud he worry .. he has da rite to enjoy his life any way he wants .. :biggrin:

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## Endurer

You're so right man. Oh & please don't pull religion into this again..ok?  :Big Grin:  I believe that his/her religion allows men/women to have same sex relationships (but I can be wrong).

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## AaDi

No .. as dsjeya said .. religion doesnt stop them from 'enjoying' .. its perfectly fine as long as one is enjoying .. rite dsjeya?

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## dsjeya

not one both shoud enjoy endurer and useless
hindu religion tolerates same sex enjoying sex
aravanis are born males become females by surgery enjoy sex with men

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## niceguy

> What if one of my 30 year old male friend had sex with your 16 year old son? what if your son enjoys it (rape is subjective)? What'd you do? I am sure you won't condemn it.. right?


Naturally i would be upset. What would u do?? disown ur child? I have a few questions for you.

1. Are u superior to a homosexual person?
2. Do you deserve more rights?




> You're so right man. Oh & please don't pull religion into this again..ok?  I believe that his/her religion allows men/women to have same sex relationships (but I can be wrong).


again with the religion.... im asking to be objective about this, but you guys keep pushing religion into this. Homosexuals are ppl like all of us and they deserve to be treated like all of us.

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## dsjeya

niceguy
endurer and useless are having closed minds

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## mytonse

There so much difference around.

Fine everything is rite where you people say it.Enjoy,condemning all fine.But isnt it unethical.I mean what do women do then.If it was all too real why motherhood is granted to them.Same sex couples take a backseat here..

Kindly clarify.

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## dsjeya

mytonse
just because a few people indulge in sex with the same gender heterosexual 
behavior will not suffer
treat the homosexuals as mental variant not criminals

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## mytonse

Mental variants specially directs tomental disorder ,if then should nt it all be treated as a disease and get people cured for..sameways we do for alcohol addictors..

Offtopic-Dsjeya, i truly admire the the way u debate.I would love to talk from all stand but hearing your side makes up the table.

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## Endurer

> Naturally i would be upset. What would u do?? disown ur child? I have a few questions for you.
> 
> 1. Are u superior to a homosexual person?
> 2. Do you deserve more rights?


I *despise* homosexuals!




> again with the religion.... im asking to be objective about this, but you guys keep pushing religion into this. Homosexuals are ppl like all of us and they deserve to be treated like all of us.


Quick question: Should _terrorists, rapists e.t.c._ _be treated like all of us_? You should know where to finally draw the line between good and bad.

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## Endurer

> niceguy
> endurer and useless are having closed minds


awww weren't you getting enough attention elsewhere? Nevertheless, I can't be bothered to explain it to the likes of you.

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## Endurer

> mytonse
> just because a few people indulge in sex with the same gender heterosexual 
> behavior will not suffer
> treat the homosexuals as mental variant not criminals


Ignoring people like you (when you're so damn common) is a difficult job, Dsjeya.

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## dsjeya

try to understand the opposite view point Endurer

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## Endurer

> try to understand the opposite view point Endurer


Which is? what are you trying to suggest?

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## dsjeya

some people who are sympathetic to mental aberration does not mean the are against religion and God
so many Muslim men consume alcohol

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## mytonse

So many  do,

But alcohol restricts itself to the drinker.Here we talk abt two in the least.Dseyja ,open your eyes and see the common line.

Having sympethetic feelings towards people with mental aberration is allrite,but you seem to allow to continue it and giving it patronage.Here you go wrong !

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## niceguy

> There so much difference around.
> 
> Fine everything is rite where you people say it.Enjoy,condemning all fine.But isnt it unethical.I mean what do women do then.If it was all too real why motherhood is granted to them.Same sex couples take a backseat here..
> 
> Kindly clarify.


Everyone is entitled to happiness, not just women. Not giving birth to a child doesn't mean women are being robbed of happiness.




> Mental variants specially directs tomental disorder ,if then should nt it all be treated as a disease and get people cured for..sameways we do for alcohol addictors..
> 
> Offtopic-Dsjeya, i truly admire the the way u debate.I would love to talk from all stand but hearing your side makes up the table.


umm hmmm... so homosexuality is a disease that can be cured?




> I *despise* homosexuals!
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: Should _terrorists, rapists e.t.c._ _be treated like all of us_? You should know where to finally draw the line between good and bad.


Here's a news flash for you. BEING GAY ISN'T A CRIME! How many rapist and terrorist's are gay? Most of them aren't so i guess most straight ppl are evil?




> So many  do,
> 
> But alcohol restricts itself to the drinker.Here we talk abt two in the least.Dseyja ,open your eyes and see the common line.
> 
> Having sympethetic feelings towards people with mental aberration is allrite,but you seem to allow to continue it and giving it patronage.Here you go wrong !


ur a scientist now? since when are you qualified to label gay ppl as mentaly sick? I doub't you've ever seen gay ppl or gotten to know them. Try being an individual instead of listening and following on the paths of other ppl

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## dsjeya

homosexuality is a mental aberration not a disease
we have to tolerate it unless u are going to castrate them all
i am really thankful for your appreciation niceguy
some prefer vegetables some go for meat
same way majority prefer female sex organ some prefer defecating pathway 
some oral sex
anatomically in all the three outside skin inside mucous membrane

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## mytonse

@Niceguy,
Yeah i hhavnt been in close contact of any gay and wouldnt like one too.Yeah it can be.Stop mocking me nice-guy.

First get your info complete.k..Treatments are there in initial stageshttp://www.narth.com/docs/buxton.html

Am no scientist or for that matter hold any degree,but i clearly know whats wrong and right and definetly know how to support it.

STAND-OFF

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## Endurer

> Here's a news flash for you. *BEING GAY ISN'T A CRIME!* How many rapist and terrorist's are gay? Most of them aren't so i guess most straight ppl are evil?


FACT CHECK 1:

Penal Code of Pakistan:

Section 377, a law introduced by the British government in 1860 criminalizes "carnal knowledge of any man against the order of nature", with a penalty of anywhere from 2 to 10 years.

Islamic law was re-introduced in 1990. *Pakistani civil law punishes those who have gay sex with two years to life in prison, while Islamic law, which also can be enforced legally, calls for up to 100 lashes or death by stoning.*

FACT CHECK 2: The topic title says: Gay culture in *Pakistan*.

Next you will be pushing for allowing bestiality, child molestation, and rape? Would you like it if your children were gay? Seeing how vehment you are just raises my doubts.

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## dsjeya

Endurer friend
please understand we are no for homosexuality
all we say that this afferent behavior is due some psychological factors
treat them as human beings not as criminals
we are not in 1860 we are in 2007
mytonse
everybody has a right to have their own views

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## mytonse

Dsyeja
Exactly right.So we say the same thing...No for homosexuality or the gay culture..Get the psychological factors treated...

2007 needs to be more bright in taking decision having seen through so much media and views..

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## dsjeya

mytonse
if some people can not be treated successfully 
what will u do
shoot them
confine to prision
castrate them
      or
leave them to lead a peaceful life with like minded people

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## mytonse

Dsyeja,

I stand no for voilence,The topic is directed towards child molestation as the start indicates.The topic has swayed.

If they cannot be treated ,yes they should be confined if they cannot check themselves.Letting such persons loose we risk inculcating such emotions in the new youngsters who just at bend at anyting,even if it were a gay rock-band.

Let them live their lives,we ours.

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## dsjeya

we do all agree child abuse should be severely punished
but not mutually consenting adult gays

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## mytonse

PEACE..

Those adults could have been treated if they were seen to at the proper age.

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## dsjeya

nice discussion mytonse

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## niceguy

> @Niceguy,
> Yeah i hhavnt been in close contact of any gay and wouldnt like one too.Yeah it can be.Stop mocking me nice-guy.
> 
> First get your info complete.k..Treatments are there in initial stageshttp://www.narth.com/docs/buxton.html
> 
> Am no scientist or for that matter hold any degree,but i clearly know whats wrong and right and definetly know how to support it.
> 
> STAND-OFF


your  not in a position to talk about gay being evil if you haven't known one. Whats wrong and whats right is relative to everyone, i think gay ppl should be treated like everyone else, you don't. That website doesn't prove anything. The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality as a mental disorder more then 30 years ago. I can google too and find millions of links showing being gay is not a disease. i'm not mocking you in anyway. i'm just letting you know that if someone's gay, you shouldn't go out of your way to judge them. Leave them alone, if they think it's a problem, they'll do something about it.




> FACT CHECK 1:
> 
> Penal Code of Pakistan:
> 
> Section 377, a law introduced by the British government in 1860 criminalizes "carnal knowledge of any man against the order of nature", with a penalty of anywhere from 2 to 10 years.
> 
> Islamic law was re-introduced in 1990. *Pakistani civil law punishes those who have gay sex with two years to life in prison, while Islamic law, which also can be enforced legally, calls for up to 100 lashes or death by stoning.*
> 
> FACT CHECK 2: The topic title says: Gay culture in *Pakistan*.
> ...



i guess i was wrong for that part. Personally i would prefer my children to be straight so they don't have to be abused by society, but i wouldn't disown him of they were gay. What would u do? My stance on gay ppl's rights are still the same. They deserve to be treated like every other human being. Stop relating homosexuality to crime. As i said before, majority of the crimes are done by straight ppl, would that make heterosexual ppl bad?

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## mytonse

Well Well,somebody else is going to tell me if i am in a position to talk for myself in a debate or not.Mr.Niceguy read your posts once more,you seem to be authoring a wrestling match rather than a debate.

Besides the related link was to show that matter still exists for professionals to treat them,not for the sake of an article.Am not judging any person straight/gay,nor i hold the right to do so.Every person had a life and space of his own.But to a very great extent society and environment.What would you be doing hence finding most around you gay?Youll be mentally affected and take steps to evacuate the neighbourhood cause your own stats would be at risk.

People have different angles from to look  pretaining to their intellectual capabilities,arguments and reasons.Look behind it all ,share and try to come to a common understanding.

my source has been Yahoo rather than google.

And the topic is :""GAY Culture in Pakistan""

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## dsjeya

endurer wants to punish them

mytonse wants to condemn them
we want you to leave them to lead their own life
not long ago leprosy affected people were killed,stoned and deported to islands out of ignorance by people like endurer

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## *Saira*

uh come again?What does leporasy has to do with being gay?I never knew gay-ism was a disease or is it?

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## mytonse

They can live their life their own way,but their effect on society is simply irrational.They are better to society if they stay closed.Campaigning for GAY concerts and GAY laws is simply obscure !

"GAY-ism is a mental disorder and can be treated in stages.

Leprosy is a different topic alltogether.

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## Endurer

> *endurer wants to punish them*
> 
> mytonse wants to condemn them
> we want you to leave them to lead their own life
> not long ago leprosy affected people were killed,stoned and deported to islands out of ignorance by people like endurer


It's not me, it's the *LAW*. What's next Dsjeya? Rights for people with HIV/AIDS to have unsafe sex? Rights for child molestors and rapists to sit with our children and have dinner? It is a sin & a *crime* in a country where I live in.

Lets read what the Indian penal code has to say:

*Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code*

_Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, and shall also be liable to fine._ 

Homosexuality is a *disease.* 

Allah (s.w.t) created Adam (P.B.U.H.) & Eve P.B.U.H. and *NOT* Adam (P.B.U.H.) & Steve.

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## dsjeya

Homosexuality is a disease.endurer
diseases are to be treated
law must change with times

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## dsjeya

*Saira
i simply compared yesterday's behavior of society towards leprosy patients with the way we look at gays now
read my post again
if u could not comprehend
get help of good  English teacher

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## *Saira*

Seems somebody's getting really desperate!!I did comprehend what u mean but u can't compare leporasy and gay-ism in the same context.period!

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## dsjeya

What does leporasy has to do with being gay?saira

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## mytonse

Thats what you have been doing.Quoting both in the same context.

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## dsjeya

i thought u will understand
out of ignorance leoprosy patients were treated badly in 19th century
now endurer and co wanted to do the samethng to gays

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## mytonse

Ignorance?
Read through the topic once more.This is just absurd.Debate from the same end.Sexual context is missing.

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## Muzi

Im gonna stay from this now

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## dsjeya

I am gonna stay from this now

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## mytonse

It shows the winning end ..

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## dsjeya

see it is said don't argue with closed mind people

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## mytonse

Ahha...Who said it ?

We are right here.Your the one leaping away friend.I am right here

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## dsjeya

let it be mytonse

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## Endurer

> i thought u will understand
> out of ignorance leoprosy patients were treated badly in 19th century
> now endurer and co wanted to do the samethng to gays


*US Presidential candidate Brownback: Homosexual acts are immoral:*

Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback is backing the *nation's top general* over his remarks that *homosexual acts are immoral*.

The Kansas senator planned to send a letter on Thursday to President Bush supporting Marine Gen. Peter Pace, who earlier this week likened homosexuality to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs also said in an interview with the Chicago Tribune: "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well-served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way." 

Dsjeya, you're pathetic and lame. 

*STICK to the topic.*

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## mytonse

Done @Dsjeya.

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## niceguy

> Well Well,somebody else is going to tell me if i am in a position to talk for myself in a debate or not.Mr.Niceguy read your posts once more,you seem to be authoring a wrestling match rather than a debate.
> 
> Besides the related link was to show that matter still exists for professionals to treat them,not for the sake of an article.Am not judging any person straight/gay,nor i hold the right to do so.Every person had a life and space of his own.But to a very great extent society and environment.*What would you be doing hence finding most around you gay?Youll be mentally affected and take steps to evacuate the neighbourhood cause your own stats would be at risk.*
> 
> People have different angles from to look  pretaining to their intellectual capabilities,arguments and reasons.Look behind it all ,share and try to come to a common understanding.
> 
> my source has been Yahoo rather than google.
> 
> And the topic is :""GAY Culture in Pakistan""


The problem here is that some ppl cant accept  ppl if they are different in some ways. Don't contradict urself. saying that gay ppl have a disease that needs to be fixed is judging them. The common understanding here is that everyone should be treated equally isn't it? but the way ur arguing is that ppl need to follow religion in order to be treated equally. And yes i know the topic is gay culture in pakitan, but this wouldnt be much of a debate if everyone agreed on the same point would it?




> It's not me, it's the *LAW*. What's next Dsjeya? Rights for people with HIV/AIDS to have unsafe sex? Rights for child molestors and rapists to sit with our children and have dinner? It is a sin & a *crime* in a country where I live in.
> 
> Lets read what the Indian penal code has to say:
> 
> *Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code*
> 
> _Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, and shall also be liable to fine._ 
> 
> Homosexuality is a *disease.* 
> ...


yes it is a crime in the country you live in, thats y we have a debate.
another reminder, plz don't relate homosexuality with rapist, child molesters, terrorists or criminals. That point doesn't hold ground.





> Homosexuality is a disease.endurer
> diseases are to be treated
> law must change with times


man sometimes i don't know what side ur on...




> *US Presidential candidate Brownback: Homosexual acts are immoral:*
> 
> Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback is backing the *nation's top general* over his remarks that *homosexual acts are immoral*.
> 
> The Kansas senator planned to send a letter on Thursday to President Bush supporting Marine Gen. Peter Pace, who earlier this week likened homosexuality to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly.
> 
> The chairman of the Joint Chiefs also said in an interview with the Chicago Tribune: "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well-served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way." 
> 
> Dsjeya, you're pathetic and lame. 
> ...


another man's opinion

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## mytonse

> The problem here is that some ppl cant accept ppl if they are different in some ways. Don't contradict urself. saying that gay ppl have a disease that needs to be fixed is judging them. The common understanding here is that everyone should be treated equally isn't it? but the way ur arguing is that ppl need to follow religion in order to be treated equally. And yes i know the topic is gay culture in pakitan, but this wouldnt be much of a debate if everyone agreed on the same point would it?


So you are implying that just for a debate you are taking the opposite stand since i am on this side.Well this pretty well proves it.You are noway going to practice it in real life.Contradiction is on your behalf.
*Homosexuality is a disease.
*Undefiatiable is my word when it comes to showing the right path.

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## niceguy

> So you are implying that just for a debate you are taking the opposite stand since i am on this side.Well this pretty well proves it.You are noway going to practice it in real life.Contradiction is on your behalf.
> *Homosexuality is a disease.
> *Undefiatiable is my word when it comes to showing the right path.


where did i contradict myself? my stance is still the same it has always been. I merely stated someone needs to argue the opposite point. Once again, ur entitled to ur opinion. In pakistan, homosexuality is a disease, in other places it isn't. It all comes down to if your willing to accept ppl for who they are, and it's clear your not ready to do that. You argue the same things again and again, either your not trying to understand what i'm saying or you just don't want to.

Pretend ur under the veil of ignorance. What this means is u don't know ur place in society, don't know if you have a religion or not etc. Then u make laws for the society. Now when ur making laws against homosexuality, what would u do? You don't know if your gay untill the veil is removed, so you most likely award them the same rights as everyone else wouldn't u?

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## mytonse

Ignorance?

Friend someone else is missing the light.I wouldnt be.I would get myself treated.Homosexuality is a sexual/mental aberration.It can be treated.I would do it first at the earliest if i were to consider your "veil scenario"

I understand it clearly.Well enough to still know the right side.Noone disrupts nature.Answer a simple question.Why was motherhood benefacted to women if the creator  would have wanted sam-sex relationhips.The whole idea is absurd.

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## Muzi

Thank God I fooked off this topic

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## mytonse

Excuse me MUZI,What are you trying to indicate ?

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## niceguy

> Ignorance?
> 
> Friend someone else is missing the light.I wouldnt be.I would get myself treated.Homosexuality is a sexual/mental aberration.It can be treated.I would do it first at the earliest if i were to consider your "veil scenario"
> 
> I understand it clearly.Well enough to still know the right side.Noone disrupts nature.Answer a simple question.Why was motherhood benefacted to women if the creator  would have wanted sam-sex relationhips.The whole idea is absurd.


You seem to missing the light, you think this world works perfectly and every thing happens for a reason. Y are their earthquakes? tornadoes? tsunamis? are these punishments from god for something we did wrong? Is the world fair? Does everything work out perfectly? No it doesn't. Many methods can be made to change a person's mind. How do u think the KKK recruited? If you have enough ppl try, you can have ppl come up with ways to make straight ppl gay. Also that treatment isn't guaranteed, even in early stages. Do you think gay ppl like to be converted? If anything, they convert cuz they arent accepted by society. If you were a minority in a country, how would you feel about ppl coming and trying to convert your religion or who you are?

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## Muzi

> Excuse me MUZI,What are you trying to indicate ?



That I fooked of this topic for my own good, ya all can continue though

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## Loki123

*Gay liberation movement*

Most of us gays and lesbians in Pakistan agree with the fact that we won't be allowed to marry and have legal rights in this country, most of us want to leave. We want to be somewhere we are respected as part of the society.

Yes I'm gay. I'm a Pakistani and I'm a doctor. And I believe on my rights to marry whoever I want.
I can chose for myself and I can decide what is good for me and what isn't. The state should have no right to tell me how to live my life as long as I'm not hurting anyone.

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## sjkhan

fdsafdafaf gdgfd gdhf gfdgfd gdgfg

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## rising.pakistan1

:Frown:  this is worst Pathar ki barish hogi

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