# Ray Of Light > The Spiritual Heaven >  homosexuality - Islamic beliefs about

## andrewthewarrior

quick question - can anyone tell me what the official Islamic teaching is on homosexuality? what do you believe about it? how do you feel about it? how do feel toward homosexuals? what about people who have same-sex attraction, but who are not acting on it? 

is there an official teaching in Islam on this issue? thanks.

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## Shades

> quick question - can anyone tell me what the official Islamic teaching is on homosexuality?


Homosexuality is defined as : sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex

Islam is a complete system rather than just religion with few ceremonial rites, every act that human being can perform can be judge by Islam, and Islam has laid down the criteria whether that act is worthy of praise and reward or it should be subjected to condemnation.
Sex is not a bad thing in Islam, never does Islam discourages sex. Islam has very unique approach towards sex, as *Islam is the only religion which not only permits but hails sex as an act of worship*. Of course for this Islam has laid to some criteria to benefit human being, as Islam has laid for every other deed which human can execute. Islam has laid some criteria to perform sex, and when its done under that permissible boundaries then it is considered as worship and is a subject to praise and reward. If same act is performed outside the boundaries and transgressing the limits then it becomes condemnable and is punishable, as not only it is immoral but also it creates chaos and problems, as extra martial and pre martial affairs are the main reason for divorces etc. Few of the criterias which has been laid for sexual activity are as follows.

1.	It must be performed only after marriage between husband and wife
2.	The marriage must be approved by witness
3.	Anal sex is forbidden
4.	Sex during menstruation, Hajj, Umra, fasting etc is prohibited
5.	Every type of extra-marital and pre-marital affairs are strictly forbidden
6.	All types of homosexuality is condemned and strictly prohibited

As your question deals with homosexuality, from above criteria we can derive the Islamic teaching, but below are few verses of Quran and teachings of Prophet Muhammad SWS which sheds light on homosexuality specifically.

 Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!(26: 165-166).

Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! (27: 55).

For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. (7:81). 

Bukhari (72:774) - "The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men,

Reliance of the Traveller, p17.2 - "May Allah curse him who does what Lot's people did." 

From the above references we can have the crystal clear view of Islams stance on homosexuality.

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## Shades

> what do you believe about it?


*I do not dare to question the command of my creator as for he knows what is good and what is bad, and its my faith that he never ask humans to indulge in something which is wrong and commands us to refrain from good acts/deeds.*

But for your understating or for those who need, I can state few reasons, which we Muslims do not need, but still what we can understand from our limited scope, we can surely tell that best stand on homosexuality is that of Islam, as it not even prohibits but also shows us the way to reduce and diminish it.

*Islam never allows unnatural deeds*; its against the nature to be homosexual.

There are few theories which have propped up in favor of homosexuality, specially a research which has been performed by Dr Dean H. Hamer, chief of the Gene Structure and Regulation Section of the National Cancer Institutes Laboratory of Biochemistry, but lets analyze what the study shows and what Hamer a gay rights activist himself have to say about his studies.

Dr Hamer and his coworkers, conducted a study of the pedigrees of gay men who also had gay brothers. Hamer found that such people had an excess of gay relatives on the mothers, but not the fathers side of the family. *Reasoning that this might indicate that sexual orientation might be linked to the X chromosome, thereby fanning the idea of born like that*

In 1999, on the other hand, Drs. George Rice, Neil Risch and George Ebers published their findings in Science after attempting to replicate Hamers Xq28 study. Their conclusion: *We were not able to confirm evidence for an Xq28-linked locus underlying male homosexuality*. Moreover, they added that *when another group of researchers (Sanders, et al.) tried to replicate Hamers study, they, too, failed to find the genetic connection to homosexuality*.Weve been collecting families that have more than one gay person for five years, and weve gone through something like 400 pedigrees. In those [families] there is really no support for the idea that male homosexuality is X-linked. The DNA tests that were done didnt even support Deans idea a bit. There wasnt even a trend toward increased sharing of haplotypes down there at Xq28
( For More reference please visit the NARTH official website )

*Dr. Rice concluded in the Rice et al study
It is unclear why our results are so discrepant from Hamers original study. Because our study was larger than that of Hamers et al*,we certainly had adequate power to detect a genetic effect as large as reported in that study. Nonetheless, our data do not support the presence of a gene of large effect influencing sexual orientation at position Xq28. (The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science)

Byne
The hallmark of X-linked transmission is the absence of father-to-son transmissionIts possible that just the relative absence of father-to-son transmission - because gay men tend not to have children - could have given Dean the impression of X-linked transmission in his first pedigree study. (Biological Determination Of Sexuality Heating Up As A Research Field)

*So many of the scientists proved that the study of Dr Hamer is not reliable, moreover have a look what Dr Hamer himself said about his study*.

 We knew that genes were only part of the answer. We assumed the environment also played a role in sexual orientation, as it does in most, if not all behaviors. Homosexuality is not purely geneticenvironmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gayI dont think we will ever be able to predict who will be gay. (The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science)

*Citing the failure of his research, Hamer further writes*

The pedigree failed to produce what we originally hoped to find: simple Mendelian inheritance. In fact, we never found a single family in which homosexuality was distributed in the obvious pattern that Mendel observed in his pea plants. (The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science)

Among Jeffrey Satinovers conclusions on the gay gene are
	*There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is genetic-and none of the research itself claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public*.


In fact, gay-activist researcher Dean Hamer makes a revealing statement about science and morality. He states, *biology is amoral; it offers no help in distinguishing between right and wrong. Only people, guided by their values and beliefs, can decide what is moral and what is not.*


Another very famous gay rights activist 
*Lesbian activist Camille Paglia* offers the following observation:
*Homosexuality is not normal. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm*. Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single relentless rule. That is the norm. *Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction. No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculoushomosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait.We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubescent stage where children anxiously band together by gender.current gays cant insist that homosexuality is not a choice;* that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort

She clearly says inspite of being gay rights activist, she tells us that its unnatural to be homosexual, but we are being forced to believe something else, we are being bombarded with information from main stream media that its ok to be gay and its natural, born like that theories are being fanned by them to spread this immorality. Many of the gay rights activist support the formation of gay clubs etc just because they think they have the right to be so, not thats its natural.

But lets analyze whether its ok to grant rights to homosexuals?
When the disease can be cured then instead of curing, *we cannot allow patients to be so, there are many therapies which can cure homosexuality, then why to allow them to suffer and create problems for whole society, few threats that are looming over our society due to this disease is*

1.	Complete crash of family system, as if they cannot produce Childs there can be no way it can be termed as family. Natural is the process of reproduction, as this is the process by which human civilization is surviving, homosexuality is an attempt to defunct the very base of family and human survival.

2.	Increasing immorality and its an epidemic as, we can analyze the moment west fanned the rights of this people there population multiplied at an enormous rate.

3.	 Homosexuality is major source for many diseases, few are mentioned below, we cannot provide rights to them to acquire this diseases. 

a.	Suicide : In October 1999, the Archives of General Psychiatry published two studies related to homosexuality and mental health. The first, Sexual Orientation and Suicidality: A Co-twin Control Study in Adult Men by Richard Herrel et al, reported that same-gender sexual orientation is significantly associated with each of the suicidality measures. *The study found that men with same-sex partners were 2.4 times as likely as their co-twins to have thoughts about death, 4.4 times as likely to want to die, 4.1 times as likely to have suicidal ideation, 6.5 times as likely to have attempted suicide, and 5.1 times as likely to have any of the suicidal symptoms.* After adjustment for substance abuse and depressive symptoms (other than suicidality), all of the suicidality measures remained significantly associated with same-gender sexual orientation except for wanting to die

b.	Mental illness: The Archives of General Psychiatry also published in its January 2001 issue a study titled, Same-Sex Sexual Behavior and Psychiatric Disorders: Findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS) by Sandfort et al., which found that *psychiatric disorders were more prevalent among homosexually active people compared with heterosexually active people. Homosexual men were 2.94 times as likely to have a 12-month prevalence of mood disorder and 2.61 times as likely to have a 12-month prevalence of anxiety disorder than heterosexual men. Homosexual women were 4.05 times as likely to have a 12-month prevalence of substance use disorders than heterosexual women.*

c.	Kaposi Sarcoma: In an indirect fashion, anal intercourse is implicated in the development of Kaposis sarcoma, one of the diseases on the AIDS-indicator list of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC). This is because nitrite inhalant recreational drugs, known commonly as poppers, have been popular in the gay community and are used to facilitate this practice through relaxation of the anal sphincter. Researchers at the National Institute on Drug Abuse have recognized that nitrite inhalant abuse is associated with Kaposis sarcoma, and HIV-negative gay men with a history of using poppers have developed this disease.
The International Journal of Dermatology explains why homosexuals behaviors place them at high risk for this disease, which affects the mucous membranes and the skin of its victims:
In this high risk group [the gay male population], the predominant portal of entry of free and cell-bound HIV as well as the brunt of associated cofactors and opportunistic infections can be traced to both ends of the gastrointestinal tract (mouth and anus) and also the genitalia, which happen to be common sites for KS lesions in addition to their lymphatic watersheds.
*Kaposis sarcoma has taken a particularly tragic toll on HIV-infected homosexual men, sending them to an earlier grave than their IV-drug user counterparts.* AIDS reports:
According to our data, *homosexual men had a significantly higher risk of progression to AIDS and shorter survival compared with IDU [IV drug users] and other categories*. In a multivariate analysis the increased risk was found to be independent of demographic and clinical characteristics but was accounted for by the higher probability of developing Kaposi's sarcoma.

d.	Hodgkins DiseaseHomosexual men suffering from HIV/AIDS also suffer from other cancers and lymphomas. One study published in the Annuls of Medicinenoted the connection between homosexual AIDS patients and Hodgkins disease. The study concluded, *An excess incidence of Hodgkins disease was found in HIV-infected homosexual men.* The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a study that further supports a connection between homosexual male AIDS patients and Hodgkins disease.

e.	Anal Cancer Homosexual males are also at elevated risk for anal cancer. A likely possibility is that chemicals in the lubricants used to facilitate anal intercourse are a factor associated with this disease. Researchers R.J. Ablin and R. Stein-Werblowsky describe sperm and seminal plasma as capable of promoting cancer, and suggest that this accounts for the increase in cancer among people practicing anal sex.One article in the New England Journal of Medicine commented, "Our study lends strong support to the hypothesis that homosexual behavior in men increases the risk of anal cancer: 21 of the 57 men with anal cancer (37 percent) reported that they were homosexual or bisexual, in contrast to only one of 64 controls." The Journal of the American Medical Association also published similar findings: *"Epidemiological studies have shown that risk factors for anal cancer include homosexuality*, history of receptive anal intercourse, presence of anal condylomata, and smoking." And the International Journal of Cancer stated, "Being single and having practiced anal intercourse appears to be associated with anal cancer and case reports have suggested a recent increase in the number of cases of anal cancer."Another article published in the Journal of the *American Medical Association* stated that, studies indicate that *immunosuppressed male homosexuals have a high prevalence of anal human papilomavirus infection and anal intra-epithelial neoplasia, and this population may be at significant risk for the development of anal cancer.*
Along the same lines, an article in the New England Journal of Medicine concluded: *Anal intercourse may predispose to anal cancer through the transmission of an infection, most probably infection with human papillomavirus.*

f.	Impairment of Immune Response Several researchers have concerned themselves with the immune dysfunction consequent to the direct entry of semen into the bloodstream by means of anal intercourse. Joseph Sonnabend has argued that repeated exposures to semen combined with various sexually transmitted disease pathogens result in impairment of immune response. Robert Root-Bernstein concluded that exposure to semen through anal intercourse can initiate lymphocytotoxic autoimmunity. Another researcher who recognizes the pathogenic effects of semen is Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos (Department of Medical Physics, Royal Perth Hospital, Perth, Western Australia), author of Looking Back on the Oxidative Stress Theory of AIDS published in Continuum volume 5, number 5 - mid-winter 1999.

g.	AIDS : The *CDC reports in its June 2000 HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report that men who have sex with men (MSM) account for the majority of AIDS cases* in the United States.

In the United States, HIV-related illness and death historically have had a tremendous impact on men who have sex with men (MSM). Even though the toll of the epidemic among injection drug users (IDUs) and heterosexuals has increased during the last decade, *MSM continue to account for the largest number of people reported with AIDS each year. In 1999 alone, 15,464 AIDS cases were reported among MSM*, compared with 10,138 among IDUs and 7,139 among men and women who acquired HIV heterosexually

The *World Health Organization in its Global HIV/AIDS and STD Surveillance reports* on the epidemiology of AIDS in different countries. Giving the Netherlands as a first example due to its large acceptance of gay practices comparative to other countries worldwide, *homosexuals form 68.6% of AIDS cases, whereas heterosexuals form only 15.2%*. Intra-venous drug users (IDU) form 11.6% and blood donations 2.3%. In the UK, MSM form 65.8% of AIDS cases followed by 18.1% heterosexuals. IDU form 8.1% of the cases. Those two countries are given as typical examples of what is found in other European countries in general where homosexuality is more commonly practiced.

h.	STD: Dr. Steven Wexner of the Cleveland Clinic in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, stated in a 1990 study published in Diseases of the Colon and Rectumthat *up to 55% of homosexual men with anorectal complaints have gonorrhea; 80% of the patients with syphilis are homosexuals. Chlamydia is found in 15% of asymptomatic homosexual men, and up to one third of homosexuals have active anorectal herpes simplex virus.*
The Canadian Medical Association Journal in 1991 stated that *gonorrhea was associated with urethral dischargeand homosexuality (3.7 times higher than the rate among heterosexuals).*
This is especially true of gonorrhea of the pharynx. A study published in the Journal of Clinical Pathology found, In homosexual men a much higher prevalence of pharyngeal gonorrhea (15.2%) was observed in comparison with heterosexual men (4.1%).

i.	Surgical problems and medical problems: Dr. Selma Dritz wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine, Oral and anal intercourse present physicians with surgical as well as medical problems, ranging from anal fissures and impaction of foreign bodies in the rectum to major diagnostic dilemmas. Dr. Marlys Witte et al. noted in *The International Journal of Dermatology that homosexual male practices such as receptive anal and oral intercourse and oral-anal contact, recurrent rectal trauma associated with fisting, and venereal and parasitic infections, lead to many medical problems including tissue inflammation...intense angiogenesis, and progressive fibrosis.* Finally, Dr. Christina M. Surawicz et al. noted that *homosexually active men have frequent intestinal and rectal symptoms resulting from sexually acquired gastrointestinal infections*

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## Shades

> how do you feel about it?


I feel that its the best stand any religion can take, as Islam has show us the ways to achieve, i.e by laying down the rules how to & what to wear. Islam does not allow us to uncover the (Minimum dress on the body)  satar even in same sex presence, no man remove the satar before any man nor an women can do in presence of other women, by stating men to lower their glance and be modest. I feel Islam is a complete solution which should be acted upon to achieve the results and fruits.




> how do feel toward homosexuals?


I feel they have misguided, and the environmental and other conditions are responsible, but they can be cured. I feel they have to take steps to move towards naturalization. I feel they can overcome this state.




> what about people who have same-sex attraction, but who are not acting on it? is there an official teaching in Islam on this issue? thanks.


 They are abstaining from it, so its a great thing, but they have to make sure that they do not continue as no one knows when satan can play his trick and they will be lead astray. There are many therapies which can solve problem for this type of people, they have to consult the right person and for more information they can log on to NART website.
Islamic teaching on this issue, is if the person is having attraction then he cannot have looks or continue to be attracted. He have to marry himself to a good lady so that his attraction can be nullified, and if he resisted his desires and was able to overcome the temptation then he will rewarded. Repent towards the Allah for forgiveness.
As I do not have enough knowledge on the Islamic fiqh, I cannot give you 100% details are other sides and solutions. I recommend you to consult to any good person who has the authority on Islamic Fiqh, as only those people have the authority to provide judgments in this type of cases. I have stated what I felt, if there is something wrong in this then I am solely responsible for that, and I ask for repentance from Allah. I will appreciate any correction. 

Thanks, hope you will find this useful
Allah knows the best.

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## andrewthewarrior

*Thank You For The Response!*

Thanks for the response, 'wicked'; I appreciate that you took all that time to respond to my thread and to give me all that information! That was very thorough, and I appreciate it very much! 

I understand better now, as to the Islamic teaching on this issue. I have struggled with the attraction for a long time, though I am not practicing! I want to overcome it; I really do! All of that information was very helpful; thanks again, man!  :Smile:

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## Shades

> Thanks for the response, 'wicked'; I appreciate that you took all that time to respond to my thread and to give me all that information! That was very thorough, and I appreciate it very much! 
> 
> I understand better now, as to the Islamic teaching on this issue. I have struggled with the attraction for a long time, though I am not practicing! I want to overcome it; I really do! All of that information was very helpful; thanks again, man!


Thank You for liking the response Andrew.

I am sad that you have been struggling to overcome from this quagmire, I pray to GOD to guide you and help you in overcoming this feeling. Its great to hear that you want to overcome this, I really hope you do. 

Here is a hope for you and people like you who really want to overcome.

The National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) released the results of a two-year study this week in conjunction with its annual meeting of licensed psychologists and psychotherapists, social workers, family counselors, clergy and related professionals. The study was conducted among nearly 860 individuals struggling to overcome homosexuality and more than 200 psychologists and therapists who treat them. The survey was sponsored by NARTH; its data was tabulated by professionals at Brigham Young University.


A qualitative portion of the survey confirmed Nicolosi's statements. Comments provided by respondents included:

    * "When I realized that homosexuality was a trap," one man stated, "I turned to others for help. My therapist and our relationship provided a model for appropriate male-to-male, nonsexual relationships, and taught me about appropriate touching, bonding and expression of needs."
    * Another man wrote: "I had been involved in compulsive behavior several times a week for eight years, from the time I left home and began living on my own. I had occasional physical encounters as well. Since joining a therapy group, I've had no recurrence of compulsive masturbation, no use of phone sex or pornography, with basically no desire to participate in those behaviors. The attraction to men lingers, but every week I participate [in] the group encourages me more."
    * A female respondent stated: "I never expected this much recovery. My relationships with men have greatly improved--I am able to relate sexually to my husband in a way I was never able to before. I'm learning to leave the familiar protective emotions of contempt, arrogance, pseudo self-sufficiency, anger and self-indulgence behind, and practice the emotions of love instead."
    * "Change is extremely difficult and requires total commitment," said a male respondent. "But I have broken the terrible power that homosexuality had over me for so long. I haven't been this light and happy since I was a child. People can and do change, and become free."

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## Shades

I can help you more practically if you give me your religious back ground.

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## andrewthewarrior

*Background*

My religious background is Christianity; specifically, Catholicism. 

"The survey was sponsored by NARTH; its data was tabulated by professionals at Brigham Young University." LOL Trust me, man, there are no 'professionals' at Brigham Young University! That is a Mormon institution. I do not believe anything any Mormon says about anything; I believe Mormonism to be the worst religion on earth! So, anything that comes out of a Mormon institution is automatically discredited by me!

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## Shades

> My religious background is Christianity; specifically, Catholicism. 
> 
> "The survey was sponsored by NARTH; its data was tabulated by professionals at Brigham Young University." LOL Trust me, man, there are no 'professionals' at Brigham Young University! That is a Mormon institution. I do not believe anything any Mormon says about anything; I believe Mormonism to be the worst religion on earth! So, anything that comes out of a Mormon institution is automatically discredited by me!


Leave all the stats and studies... still strong relationship with GOD can help you to find truth and it will help you in overcoming the feeling too. Inshallah I will try to suggest you the ways soon.

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## andrewthewarrior

*Thanks!*

Thanks, 'wicked'; I appreciate it!  :Smile:

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## Phenom

v. GooD Wicked. .:clapping;         :goodie;

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## dsjeya

nothing wrong in having sex with conscenting adults,ireespective of the gender
use a condom for protection
no guilt feelings please

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## Shades

> v. GooD Wicked. .:clapping;         :goodie;


Thanks dude...

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## Shades

> nothing wrong in having sex with conscenting adults,ireespective of the gender
> use a condom for protection
> no guilt feelings please



Would u say same to the man in the news below?

*Man gets 3 years in prison for sex with horse*
AP 5 November 2009, 09:54am IST

SOUTH CAROLINA: *A South Carolina man caught on video having sex with a horse was sentenced Wednesday to three years in prison after pleading guilty for the second time in two years to abusing the creature.*

Rodell Vereen was also ordered never to go near the stable where the horse's owner caught him and held him for authorities at shotgun point over the summer. He apologized to the woman and to himself after admitting to buggery at the Horry County courthouse.

"*I'm sorry about what I've done. I didn't mean to do it. It's my fault. I'm sorry for what I've done to myself*," Vereen said during Wednesday's court hearing.

Vereen was arrested in July after Barbara Kenley caught him entering the barn at Lazy B Stables in Longs, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) northeast of Myrtle Beach. *She had been staking out the stable for more than a week after setting up a surveillance camera and videotaping Vereen's assault on her 21-year-old horse named Sugar*.

Kenley said *she became suspicious because her horse was acting strange and getting infections, and she noticed things were moved around the barn and dirt was piled up near the horse's stall*.

It wasn't the first time she'd caught Vereen. In late 2007, Kenley found him asleep in the hay after assaulting her horse. For that offence, he also pleaded guilty to buggery, received probation and had to register as a sex offender.

On Wednesday, the judge sentenced Vereen to five years in prison, but he will only have to serve three years behind bars as long as he successfully completes two years of probation. Vereen also was ordered to undergo additional mental treatment after he gets out of prison and was told to stay away from Kenley's stable.

Kenley told The Sun News of Myrtle Beach she was mostly happy with the verdict, but wished Vereen had got more prison time.

"I've been through hell for the last year and it's caused a lot of hardship," Kenley told the newspaper. "There's a lot of ridicule and jokes going around about this thing. And a person can only take so much."

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## EntangleDesi

Wicked: how does having sex with a horse compare to someone having sex with someone of the same gender?
Homosexuals are people just like heterosexuals are..they are not animals and should not be treated any differently...

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## dsjeya

maturbation,homosex,then heterosex
these are the stages in human sexual development
due to some psycological factors and social factors some people persist with homosex
before modern era
insane people were killed
leprosy patients stoned
if you touch the palm of a not realed female
a nail must be passed through the forehead
says religion
but can we follow this rule ???

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## dsjeya

Modern comcepts of homosexuality by dsjeya
for medivel u know whom to ask

Persons of all three sexual orientations (heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual)   are accepted, valued and given equal rights and protections.

 Heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual orientations are recognized as unchosen, natural, normal and fixed (or essentially fixed) among adults.

 Loving, committed same-sex couples can marry and receive a full set of both state and federal benefits and rights.

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## Shades

> Wicked: how does having sex with a horse compare to someone having sex with someone of the same gender?
> Homosexuals are people just like heterosexuals are..they are not animals and should not be treated any differently...


ED, I am not saying that people who commit homosex and people who commit sex with animals are same & equal, I have just posted that news for the opinion of Dsjeya, Its not related to this thread. I mean for every sexual activity Dsjeya has an unique opinion so I thought he might give a new insight in this case too :Stick Out Tongue: artytime:.

Homosexuals are humans who have choose to be unnatural. they should be not be treated differently, but we can't let them stay in that abyss.

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## Shades

> maturbation,homosex,then heterosex
> these are the stages in human sexual development
> due to some psycological factors and social factors some people persist with homosex
> before modern era
> insane people were killed
> leprosy patients stoned
> if you touch the palm of a not realed female
> a nail must be passed through the forehead
> says religion
> but can we follow this rule ???


Which religion says that?

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## Shades

> Modern comcepts of homosexuality by dsjeya
> for medivel u know whom to ask


Sure if modern is being immoral and unnatural then we love to be in medial period and concepts.




> Persons of all three sexual orientations (heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual)   are accepted, valued and given equal rights and protections.


Sane persons try to treat bisexual and homosexual's instead of aggravating their problems, so called modernists allow them to suffer!





> Heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual orientations are recognized as unchosen, natural, normal and fixed (or essentially fixed) among adults.


if you have replied without reading my reply in detail then u need to understand and read that reply once more to know whether homosexuality is natural. The gay rights activist agree that its not natural but u fall into the trap of condom advertisements?





> Loving, committed same-sex couples can marry and receive a full set of both state and federal benefits and rights.


If same sex marriages can be allowed then why not the person who wanted to have sex with horse can be given his rights?
Believe me if Dsjeya is made president then he will call that natural too! :Stick Out Tongue: artytime:

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## Shades

The topic was Homosexuality - ISLAMIC BELIEFS ABOUT

The topic was not your personal views Dsjeya!

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## andrewthewarrior

*Not A Choice!*




> Homosexuals are humans who have choose to be unnatural. they should be not be treated differently, but we can't let them stay in that abyss.


No, 'wicked', we do not 'choose' to be unnatural; the attraction is not a choice!

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## EntangleDesi

> ED, I am not saying that people who commit homosex and people who commit sex with animals are same & equal, I have just posted that news for the opinion of Dsjeya, Its not related to this thread. I mean for every sexual activity Dsjeya has an unique opinion so I thought he might give a new insight in this case tooartytime:.
> 
> Homosexuals are humans who have choose to be unnatural. they should be not be treated differently, but we can't let them stay in that abyss.



Umm okay...I don't see the point of even mentioning it..but whatever

I don't believe that homosexuality is unnatural at all, nor do I think that they should be looked down on or should have to go against their own feelings of attraction towards someone of the same sex, just because it is deemed 'wrong' by society. 
What if being with someone of the same sex makes them happy...should they have to go against their own happiness just because society and religion tells them it's wrong? By no means am I saying that they should disrespect God, but at the end of the day would God want his creation to be happy in life?

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## Shades

> No, 'wicked', we do not 'choose' to be unnatural; the attraction is not a choice!


You have been programmed and forced to get attracted... I know their are cases of homosexuality since ages.. but in this times it has multiplied and going on.. so is that human behaviour is changing or we are being forced into something by making that general?

Atractin can be overcome, every attraction is not truth, many times we realize and laugh on ourselves by seeing back our attractions of past lyf for which we thought that was pure and genuine! We some times think that this is final and pure, but most of the time its not and after moving on with lyf we realise that it really wasn't. I think know its becoming a bit complex to you, due to improper framing of thoughts and words.. but I hope u will get what I wanna convey!

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## Shades

> Umm okay...I don't see the point of even mentioning it..but whatever
> 
> I don't believe that homosexuality is unnatural at all, nor do I think that they should be looked down on or should have to go against their own feelings of attraction towards someone of the same sex, just because it is deemed 'wrong' by society. 
> What if being with someone of the same sex makes them happy...should they have to go against their own happiness just because society and religion tells them it's wrong? By no means am I saying that they should disrespect God, but at the end of the day would God want his creation to be happy in life?


I got that idea after u mentioned that point 2 me and later I used it...


I have quoted many scientist's and gay rights activist's who are authority in this field, they have said that it's unnatural ...*and even if they don't still it remains unnatural as if nature would have allowed this action then reproduction would have been possible!* 

This is not just about rights ED! Religion and society prohibits hmosexuality due to many reasons, few of them I have stated during my intial posts on this topic, as its an grave danger to the life of homosexuals, and many more

The biggest reason is destruction of family fabric of society! It leads to much greater consequences than we can imagine. The whole system of upbringing of children, the concept of families etc will perish due to this n it also brings immorality and infedility along with it which are free parcels of destruction and unhappiness.

Drug user's argue that drugs make them happy so shall we allow them to continue with its usage? People who have illicit extra martial affairs do provide the same logic that it makes them happy, so is it acceptable? ( Even in developed countries and societies llike that of USA where hollywood star's who are considered to be the most modern and according to me immoral finds their respective partners having relationships with other's they cutff of their relationship with them, Isn't it true? I gave this example to make it clear that may be am narrow minded person, but who are considered as broadminded whats thier behaviour when it comes upon them personally?)

Now allow me 2 use the same article to defend my position on homosexuality
Even the person who is having sex with Horse can defend his position using this logic, if he is having attraction towards the horse then what's the problem with it?

*When larger interest of society and individuals come into play then few persnal rights cannot be granted to sacrifice the society on the whole*!

They should not be disrespected or looked down nor they should be looked upon, Infact they must be cared and put into process of being normal. We don't reserve the right to disrespect them.

As you rightly said GOD wants creation to be happy, so he has prohibited us from that, as he knows by that act their is no chance of gaining peace, tranquality and happiness in life. No religion has permitted this act, Hinduism, Skihism, Christianity, Judaism, etc also have prohibitted humans from homosexuality.

The intention behind replying to this thread was not to defame but to clarify and correct.

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## EntangleDesi

I'm not going to sit here and go into whether homosexuality is right or wrong...opinions are always going to differ on this matter..

But what I don't get how one can compare extra martial affairs with homosexuality... With homosexuality how is the person hurting anyone else by having a relationship with another homosexual person? 

And again with the horse, you can't even compare the two...the horse in that case had no way of defending itself against the act committed.




> they must be cared and put into process of being normal


By saying that, aren't you just in fact disrespecting them by saying that they are not normal?

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## Shades

> I'm not going to sit here and go into whether homosexuality is right or wrong...opinions are always going to differ on this matter..


Sure u can certainly disagree! But I also have the right to express my opinion.




> But what I don't get how one can compare extra martial affairs with homosexuality... With homosexuality how is the person hurting anyone else by having a relationship with another homosexual person?


I have stated those arguments in counter to the statements posted by you which states that if that makes them happy they should be allowed to do it. SO I said drug users, Infidels etc too feels happy so shall we allow them too?






> And again with the horse, you can't even compare the two...the horse in that case had no way of defending itself against the act committed.


DO you mean to say if horse is ready for it, then we should allow? :Stick Out Tongue: artytime:
How do you know that horse is not liking that act?




> By saying that, aren't you just in fact disrespecting them by saying that they are not normal?


When science says its normal its not disrespecting, when the gay rights activist says its not normal its not disrespecting, then how can my comments be taken as disrespect.
All I want to convey is just like a people who has been inflicted with drug's we have to take care and treat, so should we do with homosexuals. We have to solve their problem instead of allowing them to suffer

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## **Veil**

Shades I must say u really are knowledgeable MasHallah

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## Tulip

Indeed he is Veil  :Smile:  _PS. good job Shaikhu._

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## Shades

> Shades I must say u really are knowledgeable MasHallah


Alhamdulillah, Veil I must admit that I didn't had much knowledge when andrew asked this question, credit goes to Tulip as she asked me to reply on this topic. 

Alhamdulillah Allah SWT helped me, other wise I am not able of writing a single worthy sentence.

Thanks Tulip.

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## andrewthewarrior

*"Shades"?*

"Shades"? You must have changed your name since the last time I was on here; the last time I was here, you went by the user name "Wicked", right? I was wondering who they were referring to! LOL

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## Shades

> "Shades"? You must have changed your name since the last time I was on here; the last time I was here, you went by the user name "Wicked", right? I was wondering who they were referring to! LOL


lol yea! I thought the tym called for a change! anyway welcome back!

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