# Bethak - The Desi Lounge > Freedom Castle >  Can Muslims settle in kaafir countries for sake of better life?  ?

## noorzei

Recently a friend had forward me some article from muslim scholar, where he stated that according to Quran and Sunah it is haram to settle in kaafir countries for better life!!

What you ppl think? 

Here is it with link!


* The basic principle is that it is NOT permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Quraan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.  

(read full here) 

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=13363+ 

.........

*  The basic principle is that it is haraam to settle among the mushrikeen and in their land 

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=27211+

----------


## noorzei

Hi guys c'mon this is important, that's why i bring to your kind attention. What you say about this?

----------


## Omar

i don think soo 
Our Prophet said that for studies even go to China...

Now according to that i dont agree that its wrong to settle in Non muslim countries..

----------


## Majid

Brother ...iss topic k baray mein kuch pata he nahi  tu keya baat karien   :Big Grin:  

Especially jab quran aur hadees be involve ho jaye tu per tu kafi mushkil ho jatha hai   :Smile:  

App kissi mufti ya per alim say pata kar lo..wohi sahee baat kehne ki position mein hoga   :Smile:

----------


## noorzei

Prophet said about studies (for knowldge) not to search for better life! Both are different situations!!!!

And the scholar who cited in his fatwa proof it from Quran pak and Suunah Rasul!

----------


## noorzei

> Brother ...iss topic k baray mein kuch pata he nahi  tu keya baat karien   
> 
> Especially jab quran aur hadees be involve ho jaye tu per tu kafi mushkil ho jatha hai   
> 
> App kissi mufti ya per alim say pata kar lo..wohi sahee baat kehne ki position mein hoga


You are right it is indeed dificult!! 
But why we have to go more mufti or alim? The link i posted with teaching of scholar is also recognised. 

I don't trust on pakistani mufti or alim! really. Sorry if i offend someone.

----------


## Majid

Bro..site urdu mein be avaiable hai..check kero kaheen mufti sahab pakistan k he na hoon   :Big Grin:

----------


## noorzei

> Bro..site urdu mein be avaiable hai..check kero kaheen mufti sahab pakistan k he na hoon



LOL... Laughing my head off!!

No it is not possible, coz site is also in French, Spanish, chianese and indonesian also.

----------


## Majid

Information on Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He was born on 30/12/1381 AH. He completed his elementary, middle and secondary schooling in Riyaadh, and completed his university studies in al-Dahran, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But bro lagtha hai ka aap required information lay laithay hain..but site per research nahi karthay ka kin ki hai...sahee information dethi hai ka nahi...kafi cheezien a jathi hain..

Atleast Islam say related koi be site use karne say pehle toori bahoot research kar liya karien..cuz kafi sites aisee be hain jo actually islam ko represent he nahi karthi   :Smile:

----------


## snakhtar

Bhai, muslims na pehli migration Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) kai kehnai per Ethopia main ki thi which at that time was a non muslim country. Ussai to main yeh samaghta hoon kai muslim migration to non muslim country is allowed.

----------


## noorzei

> Information on Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> He was born on 30/12/1381 AH. He completed his elementary, middle and secondary schooling in Riyaadh, and completed his university studies in al-Dahran, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> But bro lagtha hai ka aap required information lay laithay hain..but site per research nahi karthay ka kin ki hai...sahee information dethi hai ka nahi...kafi cheezien a jathi hain..
> ...


shabash bohat khub   !! 

now you are saying the site is not islamic!! 

why don't you contact the scholar and the site, i had mention the links, and made inquery from them, why they are saying this? are they muslim? what matub they belong? etc etc. 

And then post their respons, your correspondence , here that we could see 

How much right you are? 

Peace



ary shiab, agar aap kisey say matific neiy tu yuin budnaam tu na keryien.

----------


## noorzei

> Bhai, muslims na pehli migration Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) kai kehnai per Ethopia main ki thi which at that time was a non muslim country. Ussai to main yeh samaghta hoon kai muslim migration to non muslim country is allowed.


Ethopia is still non-muslim!!!!

That migration was for safty purpose - as the kaafir were try to kill every muslim!! 

The scholar had cover all segments, before he goes to made the article. IT is very clear in the article  "for better life"  

not for education, not for safty purpose!

----------


## Majid

> Originally Posted by Majid @ Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:09 pm
> 
> Information on Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajid 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> He was born on 30/12/1381 AH. He completed his elementary, middle and secondary schooling in Riyaadh, and completed his university studies in al-Dahran, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


Bhai neend mujh ko a rahi hai..but ghalat app parh rahay ho   :Big Grin:  

mein ney sirf ye kaha hai site ko be check kar leya kero   :Big Grin:   Baqi Mufti sahab ko mein non-muslim kaise keh saktha hoon? fitwa dena unka kaam hai mera nahi ?   :Big Grin:  

Bhai ye batawoo ka aap kab kafir country say wapis a rahay ho?

----------


## noorzei

> Bhai neend mujh ko a rahi hai..but ghalat app parh rahay ho   
> 
> mein ney sirf ye kaha hai site ko be check kar leya kero    Baqi Mufti sahab ko mein non-muslim kaise keh saktha hoon? fitwa dena unka kaam hai mera nahi ?   
> 
> Bhai ye batawoo ka aap kab kafir country say wapis a rahay ho?



LOL  ...                bhut achay .....  bahi bhut achay !! 

Let's discuss first, what majority decided?  then i will let you!!  LOL

----------


## mytonse

Now Noorzie bro..i think u arent able to place topics correctly..Dost this is certainly a deabte...I wouldnt comment further unless this is moved to the right location !!!!!!!!!

----------


## snakhtar

> Originally Posted by snakhtar @ Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:39 am
> 
> Bhai, muslims na pehli migration Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) kai kehnai per Ethopia main ki thi which at that time was a non muslim country. Ussai to main yeh samaghta hoon kai muslim migration to non muslim country is allowed.
> 
> 
> Ethopia is still non-muslim!!!!
> 
> That migration was for safty purpose - as the kaafir were try to kill every muslim!! 
> 
> ...


Well Ethiopia's state religion is christianity but majority of its population is still muslim [60%]. Second there is no record which shows that muslims who migrated to Ethiopia migrated back to Makkah once it became a muslim state [A Better Place For Muslims to live in]. But if mufti has quoted the Quran right than I am obviously wrong in my argument [I will check it today and confirm].

----------


## Majid

> Now Noorzie bro..i think u arent able to place topics correctly..Dost this is certainly a deabte...I wouldnt comment further unless this is moved to the right location !!!!!!!!!


yahan per kis ki knowledge itni hai ka jo religious matters per debate kar sakay?

----------


## noorzei

> Now Noorzie bro..i think u arent able to place topics correctly..Dost this is certainly a deabte...I wouldnt comment further unless this is moved to the right location !!!!!!!!!


LOL    :Big Grin:  

Admin moved the topic here, as he think this is right place for the topic, i did ask him!!   :Smile:  

I think share your thougts, it wont matter now.

----------


## mytonse

HeheHe!!

Admin moved it from where ??

----------


## noorzei

> HeheHe!!
> 
> Admin moved it from where ??


What ? dont u believe me?  

Hy bro, I am using Admins name, he could dismay me if I am wrong!! 

It is open forum!  i hope you did notice it. 

are you afraid to sharing your comments????

----------


## mytonse

This is surely a debate..the Admin might be mistaken....for the identity of this topic ,,,

----------


## imported_admin

The topic was originated by the author at [search:4c259405d3]The Spiritual Heaven[/search:4c259405d3]. I moved it as per the request of noorzei as it was more of an international issue than a religious one.

I'm moving it to Discussions and debate. Apologies for this little confusion.

----------


## Leathel_Kurri

whats there 2 argue about the guys provided us with hadith.. hw can it b rng??

lolz ummmmmm so wen we all movin bck 2 our Muslim countries??? :duno; 

uff allah kitnei jahaz hire karnei parein gei!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey shall we conquer the world n make evry state ISLAMIC!! AMAZIN!!!!! :blee; 

MAZZA AJAEI!!!! :ang9:

----------


## snakhtar

There is no need for that. Waisay hi lartay rehtain hain, aur larai kar kai kya milay ga. Aga conquer karnai ka shouq hai to knowledge and technology main sab sai agay nikalna chaiya. That is more challenging and cool.

Second har admi ki apni interpritation hoti hain. Humari problem yahi hai kai jo mufti nai kah dia woh uttal ho jati hai. Koi us ko wrong prove karnai ki koshish karai to ya us ko blasphemy karar dai kar marwa diya jata hai. Ya us sai bycott kar dia jataa hai. Guys please grow over such disillusion and try to be real, even muffti can make mistakes [they are not GOD]. Try to come up with your own interpretation. Allah nai akkal jhag marnai nahin di.

----------


## Endurer

With all due respect, who the hell is this so-called scholar? 

Islam DOES NOT teach isolation. 




> Prophet said about studies (for knowldge) not to search for better life! Both are different situations!!!!


First of all, it is obligatory for every muslim to recite darod-o-salam on the Prophet (S.A.W.) 

As our Prophet Mohammed S.A.W. said:

_When I am mentioned in the presence of someone, he should recite Durood on me. (Nisai, Tibrani, Abu Ya'la, Ahmad)

"Whoever speaks of me should recite Durood on me" (Abu Ya'la Musali)

"May that person be destroyed who refrains from reciting Durood on me when I am mentioned in his presence" (Tirmidhi)

"Whoever forgets to recite Durood on me, has lost the way to Jannat."_

Coming back to the topic; what do you think What is 'better life'? Is it just about a career? Do you think education (knowledge) has nothing to do with a career? think again my friend!

----------


## mytonse

Rightly Said Bhai....

According to my opinion...The Sharia council  decides the new rule to be made..The Quran was revealed a long time ago..The Shari acouncil which consist s of a group of learned religious people..

If Non-Muslims can live in Muslim countries..The vice -versa is definitly possible...!!!

On the contrary ..there are many learned people who tale education at US or UK ..just fop renhancments in their research ...

Pls. Note: When you take part in a debate,make it compulsary to read the whole posts and views by other people..!!While posting..Give a hint at the top with whom u agree..This will lead to a better healthier and cleaner Debate

----------


## noorzei

Education indeed brings better life, BUT now better life concept is reserve for western countries. Thats why ppl want to settle in west  coz here are more advantages, opportunities, and these are concept of better life. 

Have you seen our countrys corrupt leadership from the last 55 years able to give better life? Are they capable to do this in next 100 years?

----------


## mytonse

Then...Time changes so does rules..So it wont matter id peopel live in Foreign Countries !!

----------


## Evian

Absolutely disagree, the reason islam spread all over the globe is because the prophet pbuh instructed his sahaba to take the message all over the globe. And this was not possible without being outside the muslim land. 

And there is nothing wrong with living in a non-muslim country for sake of earning your bread and butter as long as you follow islam. Most of the time i feel it's easier to be a muslim in america, because of the individual freedom. Islam is not a cult, it's for the whole humanity. Why should we limit the fragrance of imaan to ourselves?

----------


## mytonse

Absolutely right Evian..

What she say is truly rigth and the best answer as to close this deabte..Truly right

Jazakallah !!

----------


## noorzei

I dont see that YOU or anyone playing a role of judge or qazi here !!!  
And especially on Quran Pak or Sunnah-e-Rasulh (pbuh) matters!!

Saying verdict is more easy than proofing something as logical and authentic with the  support of Quran Pak and Sunnah-e-Rasulh (pbuh), on which we muslim stands. 

This is your or mine personal choice whether live or leave kaafir land. But we cant say that our conclusions, which only base on material desire, exceed or acceptable in the light of Islamic teaching. 

As for evians comments, off course well thoughts. BUT

it should be remembered that, indeed prophet pbuh instructed sahaba to take the message all over the world. But to concert them as muslim and name that land muslim land. 

Now have you see the difference on converting a land into Islam and  living in kaafir land as minority Muslim. 


If debates ends like that, than there should be no issue on present. 

Peace.

----------


## mytonse

Noorzie,

Your poor perception is Well known ...As for the reasons provided..i think it good..Every person is a judge in his own way..What if i told you i wrot ethis post after  talks with a Local Qazi..Who happens to be chief Judge here...

MAybe your trying to say what you want..

I can see the ear plugs...

M.Y.TONSE

----------


## noorzei

No, you dont have anything to say, We are judge on our personal issue, but not on Islamic issues.!! 

and what gibberish you talking about!

Are you saying two muslim scholar aint agree on Islamic teaching? Or 
Are you saying muslim scholar divert on Islamic issue?

Do some reasoning before spewing something!! 

Your juvenile behaviour or mentality could dismay our Islamic teaching. 

Grown up!!

----------


## mytonse

AAH ,,Gibberish me ..!!

You are the one whose blurred..When a person is provided with most of the decisions ,you come out  with a criteria of zeo importance..If you had the judge insomnia in mind...You should have asked us..We are judges of the normal perception of knowledge..And you at any point in the debate or further will not be able to change that...


As to reasoning...I have already done it..Sprew is  a figment of your unplaced mentality targeted at my sense of rightness and reason...

You are the one who needs a criterian Growing up...

See aroung yourself..!!

----------


## Evian

well, well well...i feel a deja vu happening here, noorzei cool down and mytonse, that goes for you too. 

Guys, this thread is for discussion, not altercation.

----------


## Evian

I have one question noorzei...


What do you mean by "kafir land" as far as i can remember, the land is judged by the majority religion practised by the people of that land. If that holds true, then the christian and the one and only jewish (lame) states are Ahl-e-kitab if you remember from the Quran. And they are certainly not referred to as kuffar in the quran or sunnah.

If we are to agree to the concept of not living in a non-muslim land, then what about the millions of muslims that are in india, and other non-ahl-e-kitab countries? And as far as making a land muslim is concerned, that does not happen overnight. Islam is not the religion to be spread by a sword. Remember there is not compulsion in deen(quran) hence the example of spread of islam in india. Which happened through the sufis and scholars who had migrated from far lands. Now tell me what should the muslims in india do? How about the muslims in china, indonesia, singapore, srilanka, burma, nepal, and the rest of the world? Should they also pack up and migrate to  the muslim countries? I don't agree. Islam doesn't ask us to quit our identities or where we live.

----------


## mytonse

Thats what!! he is defeating himself and just twisting it on personal biased status....

Kafir land is correctly described as those lands where the majority of the religion or the state religion is not ISLAM !!

----------


## Evian

Oh, wait........Noorzei,

I just checked your first post... You twisted it!! 

I think the reference was made about mushrikeen, not kuffaar. Please define both these terms.

----------


## noorzei

> AAH ,,Gibberish me ..!!
> 
> You are the one whose blurred..When a person is provided with most of the decisions ,you come out  with a criteria of zeo importance..If you had the judge insomnia in mind...You should have asked us..We are judges of the normal perception of knowledge..And you at any point in the debate or further will not be able to change that...
> 
> 
> As to reasoning...I have already done it..Sprew is  a figment of your unplaced mentality targeted at my sense of rightness and reason...
> 
> You are the one who needs a criterian Growing up...
> 
> See aroung yourself..!!



You are really without logic indeed incapable of reasoning. I am very sure what is ones personal choice, but when personal choice exceeds Divine teaching, I CALL THEM GIBBERISH AND FOOLHEAD (btw, not me, but most ppl do reckon them the same way). 

First you deny the article and teaching, which written by a muslim scholar, (I didnt wrote that!!)  then justify your own material desire, and most vicious when you claimed your  qazi is oppose this article. 

This is most evildoer intention I have seen from any muslim.

You proved that scholars are not agree on Islamic matter. And thats why I said you have no logical brain.

----------


## noorzei

> I have one question noorzei...
> 
> 
> 
> If we are to agree to the concept of not living in a non-muslim land, then what about the millions of muslims that are in india, and other non-ahl-e-kitab countries?  How about the muslims in china, indonesia, singapore, srilanka, burma, nepal, and the rest of the world? Should they also pack up and migrate to  the muslim countries?


Muslim minority living in non-muslim countries didnt went there with better life dreams (according to list you mentioned above). But all muslim immigrant in west came here with better life dreams!! 

And Indonesia is majority muslim country, muslim aint minority there ! 

Why dont you think for a second that the scholar answer the questioned keeping every aspects in minds. all the aspects and excuses which you and other ppl are giving from the beginning. 

Why dont you understand, your all justification regarding the issue, being keep in the mind before the scholar wrote the article. 

Thats why he used mushrikeen instead of kaafir. This is true that Christians or Jewish are not kafir. AND the scholar knew that.  As I said over and over, he did keep every chances in his mind before goes for the answer.

----------


## noorzei

> Oh, wait........Noorzei,
> 
> I just checked your first post... You twisted it!! 
> 
> I think the reference was made about mushrikeen, not kuffaar. Please define both these terms.


Evian, have a breath !!   I  twisted  it? 


Did I say that I wrote that article? 

Do you really read my first post of the thread? 

Here are the exact words I wrote in my first post; 

Recently a friend had forward me some article from muslim scholar, where he stated that according to Quran and Sunah it is haram to settle in kaafir countries for better life!! 

What you ppl think? Here is it with link!


After that I posted links, which anyone could read the article that someone queries and the scholar replied. That's why i posted two different links, for you ppl to observe the difference, it there any.   

Can any one see i twisted the article? 

Did I influence those articles? Or influence any ppl? I made it open for every one to share their views. 

Did I try to change things in the article? Or misrepresent article? 

PROOF it, that I intend to change or divert things from articles. 

It is obvious that none of you read the article in detail !!

And none of you try to understand why I posted the article.    


I am really disheartened to see level of apporach of you.

----------


## noorzei

I am desperate to post the partial view of the article.


Question #13363 : Can Muslims settle in kaafir countries for the sake of a better life?  


Answer : 

Praise be to Allaah.   

The basic principle is that it is not permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Quraan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.  

In the Quraan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): In what (condition) were you? They reply: We were weak and oppressed on the earth. They (angels) say: Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein? Such men will find their abode in Hell  what an evil destination! [al-Nisa 4:97] 

In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen. Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood. 

With regard to common sense, the Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen cannot carry out many of the rituals and visible acts of worship of Islam, in addition to the fact that he is exposing himself to temptation because of the permissiveness in those countries that is protected by their laws. The Muslim should not expose himself to temptations and trials. 

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=13363+

----------


## Endurer

Brother noorzei,

With all due respect, posting an article from another site serves no purpose. What are you views on this article? i.e. are you against it or in favor of?

Before I comment on your respectable topic any further, I'd like to know that what is _better life_? How does common sense limits you from going out to a kaffir country in search of better life when you are able to practice Islam freely? 

The importance of migration to a kaffir country is sustained by the fact that our Islamic calendar, the Hijra, begins with the migration of the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) from Mecca to Madinah Sharif which gives us an insight on the importance of migration and the 'reason' itself. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't yuhud in majority at the time of migration in Madina sharif?

If muslims were told to abandon/not to visit kaffir countries then you & I couldn't have been muslims today. Muslims from the gulf migrated to India and spread the word of Islam. 

_I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen. Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood_


This is to be understood as referring to those who are not safe to practise Islam in certain countries.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen said: 




> Settling in a kaafir country poses a great danger to the Muslims religious commitment, morals, behaviour and etiquette. We and others have seen how many of those who settled there went astray and came back different from when they went; they have come back as evildoers, and some have come back having apostatized from their religion and disbelieving in it and in all other religions  we seek refuge with Allaah  denying it completely and mocking the religion and its people, past and present. Hence we must take measures to guard against that and stipulate conditions which will prevent people from following this path which leads to doom and destruction.


So, Shakh Ibn Uthaymeen's message clears many doubts about migration excercises to kaffir countries. There are some exceptions in which you are allowed to settle there in circumstances as such as when you are propagating Islam (spreading the word of Allah swt & His Messenger S.A.W. ) alongside practicing it freely, for educational purposes, for health or jihad. 

I would also like to quote this text from a website:




> If a person is unable to hold onto his Deen, reject shirk and kufr (interfaith, multiculturalism, integration, the false ways of life, deities, traditions, laws, religions and customs of the non-Muslims etc.), disassociate himself from the disbelievers (by not voting for them, participating in their political processes or joining their forces etc.) and openly invite society to Islam; it becomes prohibited for him to live amongst them and hijrah (migration) becomes obligatory upon him.
> Source: http://www.thesavedsect.com/articles...sbelievers.htm


If you can spread Islam & practice your beliefs freely then there is no harm in doing so. Then again, I can be wrong, if so, please guide me.

----------


## noorzei

May be you notice, I never publish articles here before but only links.

But when someone made objection on my sincerity, and named it twisted writings. Then I cant hold myself to react on this with appropriate way. This is so vulgar and impolite saying that I twisted things.  

Now tell me did I spreading anti- Islamic teaching (Nauws-e-Billah) here! Or spreading hatred here! 

I only share things and want views from others. Tell me I am wrong, if I influence or try to twisted things. I just said that here it some teaching and what other think off. 

But I am disagree, and obviously get offended when someone just due to his material intention reject Islamic teaching, or try to overwrite it. 

I am not saying ok, pack your bags and lets go back, have you seen me packing things. NO

But I dislike all those who just stood up after learning some suhood and try to reject divine teachings. 

Yeh it is correct, yuhud were in majority at the time of migration to Madina sharif, but werent the intention to have safe place for muslim lives. There you will not see, greediness or material desire involved. 

You know bro, as I said before, I disheartened that I came here and try to talk. Really this is true I am saddened today. Our ummah still need some time to reason thoroughly.  

Allah Hafiz

----------


## Evian

Noorzei, i think i shouldn't have used the word twisted.

I meant that you were initially referring to mushrikeen, but then you used the word kaafir. So i just want to know the difference between the two in your opinion.

Here's a copy of your first post:


Recently a friend had forward me some article from muslim scholar, where he stated that according to Quran and Sunah it is haram to settle in kaafir countries for better life!! 

What you ppl think? 

Here is it with link! 


* The basic principle is that it is NOT permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Quraan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense. 

(read full here) 

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=13363+ 

......... 

* The basic principle is that it is haraam to settle among the mushrikeen and in their land

----------


## snakhtar

> Originally Posted by snakhtar @ Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:06 am
> 
> Come on Noorzei you don't have to quit man. I like your posts. They are challenging and serious. it is just that you don't like taking critcism too much. But that is part of the deal with everyone who post here. So don't worry if someone like your post or not. 
> 
> Mytose same goes for you. You don't have to take things so seriously either. 
> 
> And please both of u stop swearing at each other. Act like adults people.
> 
> 
> ...


man I interact with western scholars everyday too since I am a member of honor role society, but yet I don't use such details as a punchline to support my argument. Noorzai if you have anything better to say please comment. other than that who cares if you drive a limo or hang out with barristers.

----------


## Hina87

Contributors to the forums should not post comments which are unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy, tortious, contains explicit or graphic descriptions or accounts of sexual acts (including but not limited to sexual language of a violent or threatening nature directed at another individual or group of individuals), uses vulgar language in the creation of a screen name or otherwise violates Desitwist.com's rules or policies or these message board rules of conduct

Moderator

----------


## Evian

Ladies and gentlemen.....


We have deviated from the topic!!

----------


## imported_admin

*Warning 1:* All members are being requested to debate on the subject initiated by the originator. It is a violation for anyone who, including but not limited to, uses obscene or sexually explicit language, racial epithets or hateful words, gossip, slander, or otherwise attack other members.

Any & all posts that violate these rules will be deleted without prior notice. Based on the severity of the violation, we may also ban members from either the website, topic, or the forum itself.

Thank You
Administrator.

----------


## noorzei

Thanks Admin to intervene. I apologies to you if i offend you somewhere with my behaviour. My only wish was to stay on the topic and debate.

----------

