# Bethak - The Desi Lounge > Love & Relationships >  being the other woman

## dsjeya

:smileydance;:008:always a mistress,never a wife.i love him without tag.we find peace in knowing glances,shared moments.worrying if people would find out what they will say.i glow with secret love.i think mistress is on par with wife.we just own a side of man she does not.we share joys without responsiblities.we console without being involved.but the relationship is fragile.nobody knows about tomorrow,so we each live more fully for today.today,here and now is all about.one day the relationship will end.but tomorrow is another day.

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## Tulip

I don't get what you are trying to say Dsjeya. Do you want to discuss or you are just praising the so called other woman? As for me this is disgusting, every relationship is fragile but whatever you do, do it with dignity at least.

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## dsjeya

sorry tulip
i am not praising or justifying other woman
as long as marriage is there
there will be mistress
so no harm in discussing

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## Tulip

Hmm that's the sad part. Sure, please continue.

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## dsjeya

what motivates a woman to be other woman
well sex is amazing
she is taken care of.it is fun without family
some don't want the stability marriage gives
men are necessary not because we need them but because we want them
the man on his part treats the other woman like a queen
it is the married man who is ankling for an affair

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## Shades

amazin...u wanna say that being a mistress is better than being a wife?, 
apparently the life looks gr8 for a mistress, but we analyse its a matter of gr8 pity being a mistress...for e.g if u marry u will get rights, society looks at u in honour, u r safe economically, sexually, mentally, ... u dont hav 2worry much about the future life.. as husband will take care of it in most cases (as in som cases divorce will affect)... The children will hav a name of father ...they will not gain mental problms wich hav a drastic effect on the lives...
But anyway ur wish... as all dis comforts are a dream by being a mistress

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## dsjeya

thank u wicked
why persume men are seduced beyond their will
are they drugged and kidnapped
women fall into the trap by men's mesmerising 3 word i need you
it takes a special kind  of women to sustain an affair and be in the social cicle.
whuld a man be called other man ?

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## Shades

I never said that..men are seduced beyond there will...nor I said that they r kidnapped...yes u r right to the point that "women fall into the trap by men", ...But I also sternly believe that extra-martial affairs causes just depression and destruction of family life... wether it might be a man or woman both r guilty...just for sexual enjoyement they destroy complete families n future of their children and there respective too... If a man says I need u... a woman needs to control herself n this she cn co only if she is a pious n caring woman... if she loves her modesty and if she cares for her parents honour and if she cares n loves her husband... she will never fall in trap of a man.. coz she cares for her loved ones more than her sexual desires...
  One thing if any knows the taste of many dishes... then he/she might continously long for diffrent taste... but if one is not aware of the other dishes then he/she is contended with what he/she has...

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## Shades

when u r going to enoy sexual life anyhow after the marriage and with all the comforts and safety... then y to get into all this hurdles..., apart from sex in marriage u r respected honoured n loved... so is'nt it better to control the self...
  Its all about perception.. i.e how u percieve a concept n thing.. the moment u r sure abtit evils n convinced abt its goodness ... u cn surely come out of this quagmire...

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## dsjeya

how ever much we preach and wish other women will be there
to certain extent other men too
i don't know why  old men are attracted to young women they reciprocate
ideal situation does not exist

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## Tulip

Good points wicked. 
ps. Welcome here.

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## dsjeya

we may differ,bt a warm welcome to wicked
keep posting

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## Shades

Thank you Tulip n dsjeya...
  dsjeya in ur first statement u r right upto a certain extent...i.e there will b certain men n women who will continue this system n only preaching doesnt help...ya therefor strict rules must b there to prevent this system.. which is nothing but adultery...the guilty must b punished..
   comin to ur 2nd point that.. oldmen are attracted to younger females and they get attracted... ya if provide an atmosphere to flourish the feelings then certainly it will happen .. as its natural... if doesnt happen then they need a physcatrist... so prevention is the cure to this problem... dont giv a chance to oldermen.. why to get attracted even if it happens ... then stoppin the self is the best thing to do...as if we cant control our feelings...there is every possibility of falling in error, an error which cant b debug.
     And what kind of feelings are this... if any one looks then getting attracted... then there is every possiblility that if for that same man or woman who is havin an affair then if other person looks or want to attract he/she then he/she will get attracted to the 2nd.. and then whynot to the 3rd???its just living like animals without discipline...

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## Shades

Overall it looks like its just a matter of personal choice... whats wrong in being a concubine... but this is not just a personal matter.. it effects the whole society. Look at the US in this evil they have got trapped and are know suffering from it.. they want b happy .. there is no family life.. a man just have affairs and women r used just as sextoys.. No one to take care of.. nor when they r old or when they r sick or anyone who can stand by them in their hardtimes... for e.g a tory of a US person who was alone... or witout family.. he used to read in a library.. for hours together which was a 24 hr library..he died and people didnt take notice of him till 2 days... no one cared.. they thought he was reading on his chair.. facing the wall...  its a shame... there was no person who took notice of him.. why will any1 bother?, he wsn't havin wife wud search if he doesnt come back.. his parents.. same old story gave birth and kicked him out of house as they themselves wer not in the marriage bond..there are 1000's of such storys.. Its a curse of society

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## dsjeya

wicked all your arguments are theoreticlly correct but not practical
my friends who are working in soudi for affairs they just fly to egypt

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## Shades

I m not sayin that.. people doesnt have affairs Im saying its wrong...may b they i have Im living here since past 6 months n I came across many saudis n Indians too but most of them or to b more correct all of them are pious...a few people I know they try to ha affairs... but evil exist every where..  every community, every country has Black sheeps, but bcoz of them we cant support or practice an evil.

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## Shades

Lesson 5
A turkey was chatting with a bull. 
'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy.' 

'Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.' 

The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree. 

The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.. 

Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree. 

He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree. 

Moral of the story
Bull Shit might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there




This is ur point ... Plz remember it... evil things might give happiness for some time but it cant make u or give u real happiness for long... after all evil is shit

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## dsjeya

thank u wicked
if children from wedlock are so considerate with their parents,y so many old age homes

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## Shades

Not all r considerate...it depends how u bring them up..., But there are many who r good n also a portion who dont ... but with a surety the lportion which sends the parents to old age homes are of people without religious n moral values... and people who dont care about society and practice evils like adultery .. n keeping mistress...
  But from the point of mistress...there is no chance at all... whatever u do.. u r going to landup in oldage home if u r not in wedlock...but in wedlock the chances r very low...or low..if u want to minimise ur chances bring children with good ethics..

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## Shades

BBC NEWS | In Pictures | In pictures: Baby P's short life

Baby P's mother was arrested in December 2006, when he was nine months old, after a GP saw bruises on the boy's face. After five weeks in the care of a family friend, he is returned home.
The baby is twice admitted to hospital with facial injuries, in April and May 2007, and his mother is re-arrested.
The baby's mother smothered his face in chocolate to hide his injuries, which were missed by a social worker in July 2007. 
In August 2007, police tell the 27-year-old mother that the Crown Prosecution Service has assessed her case and that she will not be prosecuted.
A day later, Baby P is found dead in his cot. Investigating officers found the toddler's clothes stained with blood.
As two men went on trial accused of causing Baby P's death, graphics of some of his 50 injuries are shown to the jury. These included a broken back, cracked ribs and numerous cuts and bruises.
On 11 November this year, the 32-year-old boyfriend of Baby P's mother is found guilty of causing his death, along with Jason Owen, 36, from Bromley. The boy's mother had already admitted the charge.
Police who searched the house said it was 'disgusting' with dog mess and human faeces on the floor and rat holes burrowed into the walls.
On 13 November the Children's Minister Ed Balls ordered an inquiry into the role of the local authority, the health authority and the police in the case of Baby P.
BBC's Panorama reveals that social services in Haringey were split over whether the boy should have gone back to his mother after his injuries were discovered.

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## Shades

[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\nemo1\Desktop[/IMG]

A short life of misery and pain

By John Murphy
BBC News

Two men have been found guilty of causing or allowing the death of a 17-month-old boy. The child's mother had already admitted allowing or causing the child's death.

The trial highlighted a catalogue of missed opportunities to save his life and the case has chilling echoes of the death of Victoria Climbie.
Baby P's clothes
The boy's mother denied knowing anything about bloodstains

On 2 August 2007 police announced they were dropping an investigation into allegations of child abuse they had launched the previous December.

Baby P's mother was elated and told social workers she would go home to hug her son and bake cakes.

The next morning he was dead.

Baby P, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was pronounced dead shortly after midday on 3 August at the North Middlesex Hospital in Edmonton, north London.

But it was already clear when an ambulance arrived at his Tottenham home 45 minutes earlier that he had been dead for some time.

His mother described him in her 999 call as "blue, cold and stiff." In his short life he had suffered repeated - and unexplained - injuries.

The post-mortem examination revealed Baby P had suffered:

 Eight broken ribs and a broken back, with another area of bleeding around the spine at neck level.

 Numerous bruises, cuts and abrasions, including a deep tear to his left ear lobe, which had been pulled away from his head.

 Severe lacerations to the top of his head, including a large gouge which could have been caused by a dog bite.

 Blackened finger- and toenails, with several nails missing; the middle finger of his right hand was without a nail and its tip was also missing, as if it had been sliced off.

 A tear to his fraenulum, the strip of skin between the middle of the upper lip and the gum, which had partially healed.

 One of his front teeth had also been knocked out and was found in his colon. He had swallowed it.

The jury was not shown photographs of the child's actual injuries because it would be too upsetting but was shown computer generated images of his injuries.
Baby P's head injuries, as recreated on a graphical representation
The jury were shown computer generated images of Baby P's injuries

His mother, who is now 27, told her GP in September 2006 that her son "bruises easily" and she was worried she might be accused of hurting him.

The following month she returned to see Dr Jerome Iqwueke and explained away bruises on the child, saying he had fallen down the stairs the day before.

On 11 December 2006 Dr Iqwueke saw the child again and noticed more bruises, none of which the mother could adequately explain.

He immediately referred Baby P to paediatric specialists at the Whittington Hospital, where doctors concluded the marks suggested non-accidental injury.

Haringey social services were notified, Baby P was put on the child protection register and a police investigation began.

Five days later he was released into the care of Angela Godfrey, a close friend of the mother.

At the end of January 2007 social services decided to return Baby P to the family home.

Dr Heather Mackinnon, the paediatric consultant in charge of Baby P's care at the Whittington, said she had been unable to attend various case conferences concerning him but had made her report available.

'Systemic failure'

She said she would not have supported returning the child to his family.

She also said she did not receive the minutes of any of the meetings until after Baby P's death eight months later - something she described as "clearly a systemic failure".

Dr Mackinnon said many of those involved in the case felt sorry for the mother and she said there was "a collective thinking that this was more likely to be neglect rather than deliberate injury - which was not my view".

The police officer investigating the suspected abuse, Detective Constable Angela Slade, said she had also been opposed to Baby P returning to the family home because her investigation had not been completed.

But she said she was told by social services the mother was working well with them and a delay in returning would affect the re-integration of the family.

Social services had also been given assurances - which proved worthless - that the mother was living alone and there was no man in the house who could have inflicted the injuries.

During the trial the mother admitted this was a lie.
Victoria Climbie
The death of Baby P has chilling echoes of the Victoria Climbie case

The court heard that her 32-year-old boyfriend, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was frequently left in charge of Baby P and the first injuries coincided with his growing involvement in the household.

Baby P was taken to hospital twice more, in April and June 2007, with unexplained cuts and bruises.

The mother lied to social worker Maria Ward that she was away, which delayed a home visit for another six weeks.

When Ms Ward saw Baby P for the last time, a few days before his death, she found him sitting in his buggy, with a sore ear, a gauze over his finger and chocolate smeared over his face and hands.

Two prosecution witnesses claimed the mother and boyfriend had deliberately spread the chocolate on his face to hide bruises.

Baby P's final two weeks of life were marked by an escalation of the violence against him.

On 25 July Dr Iqwueke received a call from the mother, requesting his help to get social services "off her back".

When she brought the child in the following day the doctor noticed he was "withdrawn" and avoided contact.

'Miserable and cranky'

The prosecution claimed the child's back and ribs would have been broken before 1 August, when his mother took him to a child development clinic at St Ann's Hospital where he was seen by Dr Sabah Al-Zayyat.

In a police interview Dr Al-Zayyat said she had been unable to carry out a full physical examination because he was "miserable and cranky".

But in court she said Baby P only cried for a minute or so before she began her physical examination and he was in the room with her for over an hour.

Asked why she apparently changed her evidence she replied that the police had not asked her the right question at the time.

Dr Al-Zayyat denied his back could have been broken when she saw him.

It emerged during the trial that the mother had been placed on a parenting course, had been given stair gates, a fireplace guard and, even, shortly before his death, an offer of a seaside holiday.

This is not the first time Haringey social services has come under the spotlight.

In February 2000 eight-year-old Victoria Climbie was killed in Tottenham after a number of failings by Haringey social services and other agencies.

'I feel betrayed'

The public inquiry that followed, headed by Lord Laming, criticised the lack of communication between the different agencies and suggested an overhaul of child protection guidelines.

But Mor Dioum, director of the Victoria Climbie Foundation, says the lessons have not been learned: "I strongly believe this case is worse than Victoria Climbie.

"Personally I do feel betrayed by the agencies. Given the government's extensive reforms of the child protection system I never though I'd live to see another case so similar to Victoria Climbie. For the sake of public interest we ought to have a wider inquiry into this case to identify the mistakes made."

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## dsjeya

in one religion the males can divorce their wives at will.without maintenance forcing the the unfortunate women into prostituion for survival

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## Shades

Every religion gives the right of divorce, its not only the one religion, every community, every society and every religion has given the right of divorce! The religion towards which u r pointing the finger has given the option to remarry for the divorced wife or husband! and prostitution is prevalent in the countries like US, UK , China etc where the religion to which u r pointing is in very small minority, and its due to shattering of the social structure under the disguise of freedom and modernisim. The most no of cases of divorces takes place in US!

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## Shades

Times Of India: 19 Nov 2008, 1028 hrs IST, AP

LONDON: The British government wants to make it illegal to pay for sex and is considering a plan to "name and shame" men who visit prostitutes, a
move critics say would turn back the clock to Victorian times.

The sex trade is already heavily restricted in Britain, unlike in many of its European neighbors where prostitution and solicitation are tolerated in some form. Denmark has even decriminalized the business.

But Britain wants to go its own way, marking yet another foray into human foibles by a government many people call overly moralistic.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown, the son of a Presbyterian minister, has already backed a series of sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes, called for tougher drug laws and scrapped plans for Britain's first Las Vegas-style casino.

Officials say there is also a need for a crackdown on prostitution.

"Basically, if it means fewer people are able to go out and pay for sex I think that would be a good thing," Home Secretary Jacqui Smith told The Guardian newspaper over the weekend, before the government's announcement of the plan's details Wednesday.

Any changes will have to be approved by Parliament, where Brown's Labour Party has a 63-seat majority. Debate is expected next month.

The proposal would make paying for sex illegal and carry additional penalties for men who have sex with women forced into prostitution, the Home Office said. But it declined to give details on fines and other penalties before the formal announcement.

Men who frequent prostitutes could also be identified publicly, as they are in the London borough of Lambeth, where police send warning letters to the homes of drivers whose license plate numbers are caught on closed-circuit television picking up street walkers.

In addition, the plan would make it a criminal offense to pay for sex with a prostitute "controlled for another person's gain" and could bring rape charges against men who knowingly paid for sex with a woman forced to work as a prostitute.

Under current laws in England and Wales, it is illegal to loiter and sell sex on the streets or elsewhere in public. Keeping a brothel is unlawful, but a lone woman selling sex inside is not. Similarly, paying for sex is legal. But solicitation in public, commonly known as "curb crawling", is not.

Some 80,000 prostitutes are estimated to be working in Britain, the same as during the Victorian Age, an era when a raft of laws were enacted in a vain effort to curb the flourishing sex trade. These days, cards advertising purported escort services and erotic sites on the web are plastered inside the country's iconic red telephone booths.

Sex workers criticized the government's proposal. They said they might be put at greater risk if they had to ply their trade in remote neighborhoods or to work alone.

"The plan is puritanical," said Cari Mitchell, spokeswoman for the English Collective of Prostitutes.

"If they make solicitation illegal and start outing clients, men are going to be more nervous and women will be forced to make hasty decisions to survive economically. As Britain and the rest of the world face dire economic circumstances, the government should try to help women rather than make things harder."

Britain made global headlines in 2006 when a man murdered five prostitutes in Ipswich, about 70 miles (110 kilometers) northeast of London. Recent headlines, however, have focused on police raids on brothels where women from eastern Europe, Asia and Africa have been forced into the sex trade.

There is growing debate on whether a crackdown would lessen violence or cut down on human trafficking.

Scottish cities such as Edinburgh used to have "tolerance zones" where prostitutes were allowed to work freely.

But when the zones were scrapped in several cities years ago and curb crawling was made illegal, reported attacks on sex workers increased because prostitutes were forced to work in more isolated areas, according to the Scottish Prostitutes Education Project, which represents workers in the sex industry.

In the Pacific nation of New Zealand, where prostitution was decriminalized in 2003, sex workers said the change has given women greater legal protection.

"I do think it's extraordinary that the UK is considering such a dreadful turn," Catherine Healy, national coordinator for the New Zealand's Prostitutes' Collective, told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "We know from a lot of research ... that sex workers in this country are feeling much safer, better protected."

The Home Office said the government's plan was put together after top officials visited Sweden, where selling sex is legal but paying for it is not. Norway plans to introduce similar legislation.

Prostitution also is illegal in Britain's closest neighbor, France, but it is largely tolerated in Austria, the Netherlands, Spain and Greece.

The sex trade is legal in many parts of Germany. In Cologne, the first German city to introduce a prostitution tax, the government collected more than $1m in revenue in 2006.

In London, sex workers expressed opposition to the government plan.

"We all support measures to protect prostitutes, but this isn't the way," said a 36-year-old prostitute in London who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the risk of prosecution.

In the United States, where prostitution is illegal except at a few brothels in Nevada, authorities have recently taken aim at cracking down on prostitution arranged over the internet.

As part of Craigslist's agreement with attorneys general around the US, anyone who posts an "erotic services" ad on the Web site will be required to provide a working phone number and pay a fee with a valid credit card, which would make it easier for authorities to track them down.

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## dsjeya

how many divorces are getting remarried
how an unemployed,unskilled women will survive when divorced without maintenance allowences from exhusband

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## Shades

I havnt done survey.. If I find any survey done by any1 I'l surely post it... U r talking about the few no divorcees... there are very few cases of divorces in the one religion abt which u were pointing.  
Its about being other woman ... then how can she survive when she becomes other woman without any rights in property and without any help ... nor will she have children who will support her!!! this case is with most of the other womans... while in countries where the divorce rates are high I have already given u proof that they are western due to the immorality and lack of family values! few unfortunate pairs who are divorced in this part of world ... gets married and out of the remaining few who dont its there personal choice as religion has never stopped them!

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## dsjeya

until the divorcee gets remarried,the exhusband shoud  give maintenance for her and chidren,other wise the the unfortunate women will be in flesh trade

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## Shades

Alright just 4 argument sake lets agree that divorcee should get maintenance! but tell me how can the other woman survive? does all the other woman does the flesh trade for there livelihood?
Do u mean to say all the woman who are getting divorced and not getting remarried are becoming prostitutes?  The cases about which u r talking are rare and for that u want to destabilize the whole system which is perfect and even if the divorcee is poor she is free to re-marry and even if she does'nt then the religion has got several options to save her from this situation and one of them is Zakah... and there r many more solutions

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## dsjeya

recently i have been to malaysia
men who divorce go scot free
women  become prostitutes after divorce to make a living
do some thing was a news item in local paper
what is religiously  wrong in asking for maintenance from exhusband still she remarries or get a gainful employment
wicked why don't u accept reality,y are u against this hapless women

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## Shades

Do u know how many people are getting divorced in malaysia ans how many in US? Do u know what is the rate of prostitution in so called modern or western countries when compared to non-western? If according to ur logic when Muslims are divorcing there woman and the hapless womens are becoming prostitutes then which country should be the no 1 in prostitution ...why is the prostitution rates so low in this countries?
  Just making claims does not make ur statement true! the so called modern of which u talk about freedom and rights than y r so much pf prostitutes there? Islam is in least percentage in US and UK!
I observe every time instead of answering u come up with some allegations... If u have answers then Im open for correction! According to u being other woman is better then I am asking how is she surviving? when she cant get any sort of money from or maintenance?. Is there any difference between other woman and a prostitute? This issue's poison's the mind and destroys the social and family life which u r spreading ( I am sorry if I hurt u.. but its reality)

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## Shades

I already said.. for the sake of arguement I agree that maintainence is good for her...then y r u again stressing on the same point ... answer the other points raised by me... abt maintainence is a very vast topic which itself need a blog... Inshallah I'l explain to u that when the women can be given and under what circumstances asking for maintanence is prohibited ... but it needs time ... I assure u..irrespective whether u give answers to my points or not I'l surely answer ur every point... But plz be patient!

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## Shades

*Stats!*

Divorce rate at record high: government report

	  	Agence France Presse
June 23, 2004
SINGAPORE



THE Singapore government, already saddled with the twin problems of a record-low birth rate and late marriages, has revealed that divorce rates in the city-state hit an all-time high last year.

In a report on marriage and divorce data, the Department of Statistics said the number of marital dissolutions, which include divorce and annulments, had tripled over the past two decades from 2313 in 1983 to 6561 in 2003.

This brings the dissolution rate to a record high of 1.91 cases per 1000 residents, up from 1.72 the previous year, said the report on the department's website.

The highest divorce rate was seen among those who married young, between the ages of 20 and 24. Their divorce rate also registered the highest jump in the past 20 years.

The most common reason given for non-Muslim divorces, cited by 49 percent of couples, was "unreasonable behaviour of spouse". The second most common reason was living apart or separation of three years or more.

Among Muslim divorces, personality differences were cited as the main reason by 43 percent of couples, while 16 percent attributed the failure of their marriage to infidelity.

For both Muslims and non-Muslims, it was usually the wife who asked for the divorce: 59 percent of Muslim women and 64 percent of non-Muslim women started divorce proceedings, the report said.

At the same time, the total number of marriages fell five percent from the previous year and Singaporeans were marrying at a later age -- 32 years for men and 27 for women.

The statistics provide little relief for the government, which has been urging its citizens to produce more babies.

Singapore's fertility rate stands at a historic low of 1.37 per woman in 2002, while a rate of 2.1 is regarded as the minimum needed to keep replenishing the population.

The government has resorted to offering greater benefits for would-be mothers in an effort to assuage fears that child-rearing in Singapore is too expensive.

It has also launched a "Romancing Singapore" campaign urging its citizens to find a partner, get married and start a family to reverse the long-term shrinking and ageing of the population.

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## Shades

U have visited Singapore right!!! haven't u seen this article??? according to u mens r responsible for the most no of divorce cases... but this article which is posted on Singapore's official site states a different story... in 59%(muslim) of the divorce cases its the women who r asking for the divorce! anyhow still the total cases of divorces are in negligible when compared to western countries! 
   U say that in one religion men divorces women at will and women become prostitutes but... when we look into facts its the women who are filing for divorce and getting it so what r the men becoming?

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## Shades

Its ur statements:
what motivates a woman to be other woman
well sex is amazing
she is taken care of.it is fun without family
some don't want the stability marriage gives
men are necessary not because we need them but because we want them
the man on his part treats the other woman like a queen
it is the married man who is ankling for an affair

she is taken care of.it is fun without family
according to the report of singapore govt they are trying to increase population by joining family life but u say being other woman is good? its just a small report of singapore most of the countries r suffering from this grave problem! (Not all there are few which are suffering from the opposite too, but it's not due to family life)

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## dsjeya

dear friend are u a lawer by profession
singapore is a developed country equal or better than western countries
no purdah for  muslim woman only a scarp on the head
an illiterte,unemployed pakistani muslim women asking for divorce
good joke wicked

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## Tulip

You are very right Shaikhu, good points  :Smile:

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## dsjeya

why it is an act against god
to demand maintenance from the exhusband for unemployed exwife with children
what she can sell to live
her body ofcourse
you are pushing women into flesh trade for survival
this will please god 
damn it

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## Shades

World Divorce Statistics: This report is from Divorce Reform Society: 

I am not a lawyer nor Lier, I am an Electrical Engineer. I think u need to re-check my statements I never spoke about Pakistani women.. I gave an example of Singapore women...to which u gave a discount... this is special report for you know I wonder what will u still stay about this report!
Country:  Divorce(as% of marriages)
Sweden   54.9%
Belarus    52.9%
Finland    51.2%
Estonia    46.7%
Australia  46%
United States  45.8%
Denmark   44.5%
Belgium    44%
Austria     43.4%
Czech Republic 43.3%
Russia      43.3%
United Kingdom 42.6%
Norway   40.4%
Ukraine   40%
Iceland   39.5%
Germany  39.4%
Lithuania  38.9%
France     38.3%
Netherlands  38.3%
Hungary     37.5%
Canada     37%
Turkey      6%
Azerbaijan  10.3%
Albania       10.9%
India          1.1%
 The countries like Saudi Arabia and other Gulf are less than 1%... forget about the gulf just compare India and USA... India 1.1% and USA 45.8%
  So according this report this so called modern countries are the ones who issues divorces... and u say Muslim women are the ones who are divorced the most and the most oppressed ones! and u say that one religion by giving permission to divorce is making the life of women miserable... but inspite of the rule that a muslim man can issue a divorce ... the most least cases of divorces are in muslim countries and the least no of divorce cases are in muslims!

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## Shades

Actually I did'nt want to take this issue more into religious way... but instead of answering my queries u continued to stress on the same religious point that why are women not given maintenance??? Then to under stand this u might know some thing that a women first of all cant be divorced in all times ... there are many conditions that have been laid which we have to fullfill before issuing divorce! for eg she must not be pregnant ... she must not be in her periods ... divorce cannot be given in anger ot under the influence of the intoxicants etc... and in many verses of Quran it has been said that part with a good note towards each other... its the most disliked thing! 
 we cannot compel any one to be with the other whole life if they dont like each other... so thats the reason even its disliked still its permitted... and to understand about the maintenance u gotta know about the conditions and rules for marriage first...

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## Shades

In Islam if u wanna marry a girl then u have to give her maher i.e u have to pay her the amount she likes... its not like the other cultures that dowry is taken its opposite you must have to pay her as much as she wants ... thats the most important rule and she can ask for 1 Rupee or 100000000000 Rupees ... whatever she asks if u wannt to marry her u have to pay... else u cant marry her ... and she can do anything with that money.. she cant keep it safe ... she can give to her parents, burn it, or dump it in waste... husband have got no right whatsoever in this regard...

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## Shades

After this if thins go wrong which is the least no cases in muslim's compared to other societies.. then divorce takes place and the women can re-marry no objection to her marriage at all and the in the second marriage too she can demand what she likes... that its obligatory to pay maher to her! it can be any amount that she likes or with which she is comfortable with! 
 Know the husband is giving her maher at marriage and then if divorce takes place if still compensation or maintanence is asked from him then how can the poor fellow give her compensation and also for him to re marry the other lady will ask for maher! how can he tolerate it... where should this males should go? know if this is situation then people will start discussing " Rights for Men in Islam" :-)

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## Shades

Even there are certain cases and situations in which its recomended to muslim males to give compensation and maintenance to her which needs a other topic itself... to know which u must have atleast basic tenets of Islam... 
  Moreover even if we use the conflict approach with Islam like dsjeya e.g even after given her maher and treating as her wife and giving respect in society which is a dream for other woman ... still if she gets divorced and did not receive any maintenace and she is very poor she cant survive and also she is does'nt want to marry, nor she gets any kind of Zakah as the Muslims around her are also poor and in the whole area there is no one gives charity or do charitable works and also she is good for nothing (as dsjeya states that Muslim women has only one option of surviving and its prostitution) except jumping in flesh trade (which dsjeya do not consider is applicable or worthy to mention about other woman)... and after all this hypothetical situations... 
check a point how many cases of this kind are there? what %ge? the truth is this kind of cases are less... as if women is not worthy of marraige nor she is self sustaining nor any of her relatives are ready for help nor the society helping nor her former husband gives her maintenance and if this people does not give then y yo blame religion or GOD? if all this people who does'nt carry out the instructions of GOD to help the poor issue Zakah and sadaka and help neighbours are not following instructions then instead of asking them to follow properly u r demanding in change of laws and rules... For a minority of cases for that too which religion has given ample of support ... and if someone doesnt follow then u r asking for a change of the whole social structure? In this MEn will certainly have to take up the issue of " Men's Rights in Islam"

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## dsjeya

haha joke 
in india ever muslim is getting married after giving a hefty dory that  in rich families includes a brand new car,if you have any doubt ask indian muslim friends there
in my village a beautiful musim  girl married a man working in the gulf,after 2 months the husband left
his friend wanted to enjoy her,she refused
he misled her husband he divorced her by sending an sms
back home she  developed intimacy with a married man
a would be sex worker in waiting

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## Shades

Thank you Tulip! Just pray for dsjeya so that he can understand the truth! May Allah Open his heart for truth!

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## Shades

I think u dont want too understand... what can I or religion do if people are not following religion its prohibited in Islam to take dowry! if they are going against religion then y r u blaming the whole religion? If Muslims are following westren countries more than Islam then its the western society which has to be balmed... even after making the rules so clear n  easy and perfect if muslims are becoming more moderate and more towards evil then instead of accepting that this muslims r not being true muslims ... u r projecting them as they r the only persons who r muslims and following Islam in true sense!

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## Shades

Joke... it might sound to u...
u r giving examples of ur village... etc I am providing u with authentic references like the worlds most powerfull magazines and news papers but still...
   Do u think she cant re-marry? has religion made a rule on her that she cant remarry or ask for maher??? even if she doesnt want ro get married again ... then r there parents and relatives dead? doesnt they want to help her??? does she knows not any skill by with which she can make a living??? y do u think that muslim women can either be wives or prostitutes??? U have serious defect in ur thoughts regarding them.. which u need to get it right

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## Shades

Iam an Indian ... n I know the situation der in India and I dont deny that a large muslim population is not following Islam properly and they have inherited the dowry culture from the cultures... but still I know dozens of guyz who have got married in last 2-3 months and have paid maher.. with no dowry! ... also I know many gyuz who have taken dowry tooo...

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## Shades

Finally good example to open ur eyes!
  U like Toyota Corolla! ... Imagine u bought a new toyota corolla and u gave me to drive it and I dont know how to drive and I made an accident... know whom to blame? Me or toyota corolla...  
  By blaming Islam u r balimg toyota corolla 4 an accident caused by me... u gotto have a good driver to test corolla... u r seeing a non parcticing muslim to judge Islam!

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## dsjeya

she was your wife  till yesterday
she cooked for you
slept with you
beared  children for you
washed your clothes
nursed you when you were sick
now u don't mind she starves,dies or enter the flesh  trade
you want all the money to buy anther girl to be your wife
is she not god "s child
this type of treament  will it endear u to god
maximum maintenance is 1/5 th of income
this can happen to your sister or daughter

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## dsjeya

even workers when fired get compensation
when retired get pension
u woman my exwife nothing for you
i have to pay mehr to get another,don't disturb me,get lost
prostitution i don't care
i have the religious sanction
don't waste my time
go look for a client
very pleasant scenerio wicked
put yourself on the position of that unfortunate women and think for a minute
atleast start a pension scheme with government aid

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## Shades

I think u r not reading my posts... I have given the answer for ur allegations in good detail... Read the answers and then post ur replies dsjeya! 
  I've already said that in few situations its recommended to get maintenance... y dont u first get the knowledge of the subject of which u r speaking... even if Im explaining u dont want to accept the right course... its according to u... not according to the reports and world that Islam is problem to woman's life... I've given u stats n every thing still u continue 2 allege on same point? Read my posts with open mind dear! just making the allegations with out any reason and logic is bad...I hope u read all the article with an neutral mind..., and also instead of coming up with new allegations... try 2 answer the my queries! u have not answered to my single quest... Inspite of that I have given u the reply in full detail for all of ur allegations... just bcoz I wanna convey the msg of truth...

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## Shades

First ever pension scheme which was launched ... of that I know was in the caliphate of Hazrath Umar, he also used to give funds to children for there education...and its was in 1420 years back... what can Islam do if this type of govt exists and this type of people who dont know how to rule are ruling? for ur other allegations go back to my my posts and read it again...

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## dsjeya

no mehar,only dowry
most of the rural muslim girls are forced wear purdah and kept in the house unsuitable for any job
will you marry a divorced women with children

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## Shades

Instead of answering to my post's u have started another topic of purdah... which is again a very vast topic to discuss... but I m convinced that the prejudice which u have towards Islam is more & even after giving ample of evidence in favor of purdah u wont be convinced... 
And u have got personal.. and asked me an Question regarding my self any way I will answer every thing u will ask... so the answer is yes if she is suitable for me then y not?.

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## Shades

No meher only dowry...r u God or the owner of religion? When its written in Islam n u r denying the fact... anyway the thing is u dont want to understand... May Allah show u the right path...

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## dsjeya

in our part only dowry is given by the brides family
that is what i said
a woman is a women where is suitablity or otherwise
indian mullahs wanted sania mirza to play tennis in purthah ???

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## dsjeya

wicked did u notice  not one enlightened musim dtians are supporting you
you are trying to talipanise islam

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## Shades

I did'nt notice nor I wanna to notice... even if the dtians r not supporting me so what?
I never asked 4 support 4m any1 nor will I ask in future... I am here to defend the truth n which I will do with or without support... N for me God's help is enough... still u have a wrong perception as I got atleast one support in form of tulip avknowledging the truth but no one has said u r right! 
  Its v funny that no one has supported u and inspite of tulip supporting me u r alleging that I am being deserted... lets agree u r right.. all dtians support u n they call me a talibani as u r saying I m talibanising Islam...I cant do any thing to religion...Islam cannot be changed ... n show me one religion or constitution in which women have been really uplifted except Islam ( as Islam is the only religion which gives rights to women)

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## Shades

U have took up another controversy of sania mirza which any sensible person has answer but as u r against Islam.. so even if I give u 100 logical and scientific answers for purdah u will still call it talibanisation... n know as its becoming more like a senseless dailouge am giving u logical replies with proofs from stats ... u r just continuing ur allegations against Islam n just blaming Islam... of which u have v little knowledge or to b more precise no knowledge...

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## Shades

If any dtian wants the answer of sania mirza I will be more than happy to explain to him/her about this issue in detail...As I am pretty convinced that even after my answer to you dsjeya u will kick start other allegations instead of accepting the truth...But still If u continue to insist on the topic of purdah then I will Inshallah answer!

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## dsjeya

u marry a divorce with children, then i will accept you are true muslim and you respect women
no hala balah and empty words
action please

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## Shades

Do I have to prove to u that I am a true muslim??? 
  What kind of logic do u have dsjeya? If I marry a divorcee with children then I have respect for women otherwise I dont!!! If we go by this logic then did u married a divorcee? if not then u also dont respect women... 
  Any way I already made it clear to u .. that if time comes for my marriage I will search an woman who is good muslim.. she might be a divorce widow or any1... I dont have to prove anything to u ... nor I wanna take decisions to show u...

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## Shades

Really... that's hilarious that know I have to prove to u that I am a true Muslim =))

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## dsjeya

according to wicked there is a long queu of young muslim men to marry divorced muslim women  with children
so the happy husband planning to buy another young beautiful girl with mehr need not pay maintenance to the divorced wife she will just walk into another house with a young man ???
but wicked won't join,he is clever all his preachings  are for others not for him
if a young divorced women opts for flesh trade no problem
maintenance by exhusband has no religious sanction that is more important

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## dsjeya

make the exhusband to pay maintenance to the unemployed exwife until she marries or gets employment
or
push her into flesh trade
the choice is yours muslim men

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## Tulip

> Thank you Tulip! Just pray for dsjeya so that he can understand the truth! May Allah Open his heart for truth!


Insha Allah, aameen.

Dsjeya...can't you see me here supporting Shaikhu? and in case you don't know, alhamdulilah i am muslim.

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## dsjeya

tulip thank u for the information
just tell me what is wrong in asking for maintenance for your sister
1.she is poor
2.unemployed
3.with children
4.just divorced
till she gets remarried ??? or gets a job

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## Shades

Read my previous posts...who said its forbidden in Islam? Even if she gives u the answer u will ask the same question again! Instead of just keep on explaining to u n u keep on repeating the same allegations, dont u think we should stop this topic here??? The questions u asked to tulip has already been addressed long back to u... anyway I'l try not to keep on stretching this issue further as it just waste of time, if the person doesnt want to understand...

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## Shades

I request all to read the book of Purdah by Maulana Maududi to gain an insight on this issue, and also Women in Islam by Wahiduddin khan.

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## dsjeya

wicked  don't act too clever
give me straight answer
an unemploed poor divorced woman with chidren
how will she survive
with out maintenance  from husband
how she will survive
what she will selll,her body
don't say in moon 
there 100% divorces no muslims
in mars 90% divorces no muslims

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## Shades

go back n read my previous posts...

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## dsjeya

your previus posts will feed starving stomach of divorced women and her children
wicked be practical
sermons can not satify hungry people
only food bought from maintenance prvided by exhusband or government

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## Tulip

Dsjeya there are many other options for a person to *earn* then just to sell his/her body! She can do many things while sitting at home like stitching, become a tutor if she is educated, wash or press clothes, i mean i would prefer anything and any work over this undignified act. It's better to sell your bones then to sell your body. May Allah help and guide us all, Amin.

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## dsjeya

i think i will close this thread with this
thanku friends wicked and tulip
i have  just highlighted the problems of divorced women

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## Tulip

*Thanks* for understanding Dsjeya.

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## dsjeya

tulip thank u for your kindness

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## Shades

Thank you dsjeya and tulip

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## MizsAddiction

this is ridiculous

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## dsjeya

ridiculous what mizs
millionn of other women r there,it is a fact

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