# Bethak - The Desi Lounge > Freedom Castle >  The dying East

## Shaeireurdu

Aslam-o-aliekum!
My dear brothers and sisters,
I, Shahzaib Khan, would like to share with you the problem that is (or will be) facing us, which can effect (and has effected) all of us...that is:
OUR CULTURE, RELIGION AND LIFESTYLE (of the east) IS CLOSE TO VANISHING!
No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, this is the truth!
..Moreover, whom do we have to blame? The west? BUT! Is it not that it is ourselves who have added that guitar, drum, violin, piano , etc to our beautiful music? Is it not us who set up workplaces where dress shirts and pants replace our shlawar kamis or saari? Is it not us who have added this English as a compulsory subject in our education systems? Is it not us who use words like "Hello!" or "Hi" or "Hey" in our conversations instead of AOA? Is it not us who prefer the pizza on our naan, the soup on our Halim, Noodles on our sweyaans or coffee on our qahveh? Is it not us who prefer to do other works than to perform our prayers? Is it not us who go to discos, parties or clubs or hangouts or restaurants instead of mazaars, or mushairas or even mujras!? (For give me if I got vulgar!)Is it us or the west? It is defiantly us!!! I agree using English, or eating burgers, or watching TVs or using the computers is not at all wrong but surly giving them preference over our Culture, Language, History, Customs, Traditions, Religion and Lifestyles is next to killing some one!!!!!!!!!!
I think it is time for us to act and eliminate (or at least reduce) the western influence on our culture before the day comes that when our TRIATOR new generation comes and they will become the leaders of Pakistan or even India, they become responsible for the downfall of our cultures and allow the west to take full control of our countries and make us their satellites or colonies. Maybe in the twenty first century they will not do that but they can do what they did to us in Iraq and Afghanistan, and what they want to do to Iran. WE WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!
I appeal to all those who have respect for our creator, Prophet, Leaders, fore-fathers and nationality to rise against the influence of the west and promote our culture, history, nationality, religion, social living, society, and lifestyle...
(SHAHZAIB KHAN)

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## Shaeireurdu

Please do not express controversal or negative views, I've only expressed a view point, I am extremly sorry if I hurt some Ghulaam-E-Maghrib's feelings...

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## AaDi

Well I do agree we've lost our touch .. jeans pants .. booze .. life style .. everything is being 'updated' or 'modernized' .. but again I think religion is something within a person .. you can never define a person by the way he dresses (yes it might represent his 'looks' but never the character). At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much television we watched, what matters is did we do what we were asked to do, have we performed our duties properly .. and to be really honest people who actually go out and do upgrade their culture .. wont even bother reading these kind of threads  :Smile:

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## Muzna

yes i agreee with u shahzaib ...uptill now we are not what we were supposed to be

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## manni9

well i don't see anything wrong adobting good things (like punctuality ).
I also don't see anykind of problem wearing jeans,it also don't bother me eating pizza n  other junk stuff.Cauz i don't belive in any kind of culture,as a Muslim our culture "SHOULD" be Islamic.Even in pakistani culture we have number of non islamic stuff. 
But ya if because of their culture religon ko koi effect ho raha hea,tou it's really a serious problem.

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## Endurer

First of all pardon me for being an ignorant. I'd like to know more about our culture, so what is our culture? I hope these meals aren't part of our culture.

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## Miss_Sweet

Jis mulk mein rahein usi mulq ka culture humari life ka hissa ban jata hai...par apna culture phir b nai bhoolna chahie... WEST ka koi kasoor nai hai..unka culture unhi ka hai...its up to us..if we wanna follow it or not...aur na hi EAST ka...east has its own culture/lfestyle and west has own...

but rahi yeh jeans ki baat:s pakistan mein to jeans kaaaab ki pehnte hai as far as i knw...and wats wrong in dat:s i dnt see anything bad in it...

par culture ko ITNA b nai follow karna chahie ke apna religion hi bhool jaein...

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## Khamoshi

Shahzaib i agree with some of the things you have said but in order to move with the times we must bring some positive changes within ourselves. I mean there is nothing wrong with eating a PIZZA. About the dress i can say there has been a big change and forget the jeans even some shalwar kameez is showing vulgarity. The media has damaged wot had been built but as humans and pakistanis it's up to us to see whats right and wrong. Do we really have to follow every step the "west" takes ? Many of our eastern values have been lost.. because we have lost them ourselves.

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## Shaeireurdu

AADAAB!
Yes I agree with many of the points that you people have made here but you see that as i gave the examples of jeans or pizzas, they were just minor points, but the main thing is that aour culture is so closly related with aour religion that I think that there is nothing wrong if we try to preserve what may be called our IDENTITY becaues even Islam says that an Arab as no superioroty over a non Arab, a White has no senioroty over a black, so why don't we live as one nation? Then why are there so many diferences amongst our people? Why is there a gap between the rich and the poor? If there is no discrimination then tell me yourself that how many people who wear shalwar kamis are called with the vulgar term: cool!? Is it not us who are self destroying our own manners and adopting foregien rudenesses? Spaeka you people speak!!!
SHAHZAIB KHAN

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## Endurer

> AADAAB!
> Yes I agree with many of the points that you people have made here but you see that as i gave the examples of jeans or pizzas, they were just minor points, but the main thing is that aour culture is so closly related with aour religion that I think that there is nothing wrong if we try to preserve what may be called our IDENTITY becaues even Islam says that an Arab as no superioroty over a non Arab, a White has no senioroty over a black, so why don't we live as one nation? Then why are there so many diferences amongst our people? Why is there a gap between the rich and the poor? If there is no discrimination then tell me yourself that how many people who wear shalwar kamis are called with the vulgar term: cool!? Is it not us who are self destroying our own manners and adopting foregien rudenesses? Spaeka you people speak!!!
> SHAHZAIB KHAN


My questions remain unanswered but nevertheless, here are a few more:

Are you preserving your culture by posting this topic in english? What is our culture? I don't see anything as such as a culture in Pakistan. It's a mumbo jumbo of Indian (Hindu, if I may say) traditions, Islamic wear, tribal bigotry, and a language which itself takes pride in ripping off Persian, Arabic, Hebrew, Hindi, and English. Are Mujra's part of our culture? Who enthroped this culture on us? The Moghuls? Moghuls from Afghanistan? 

Now how on earth is cool considered vulgar? If I am covering my body with the necessary clothes from whatever part of the world then I don't think it should matter to anybody. 

What I eat is halal, what I drink is halal. Is there a problem with anyone eating Pizza? Drinking Pepsi? Down below is the last sermon of Prophet Mohammad S.A.W. :




> All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action.


Aren't you indiscriminating? Open your closed minded, materialistic, and bigoted self. 

And finally, my identity isn't what I wear, what I eat, or where I live.

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## mytonse

Beautiful Endurer.

Very well said.
Am all waiting for the other party to answer.

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## Miss_Sweet

I agree SO much wid adeel bro's reply!!! Thumbs UP for u :applaud;

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## Shaeireurdu

*Jawab Nama*

Aadaab! Asalmaoaliekum!
This is in reference to what brother Adeel has posted. Firstly I shall apologise for not being here for some time but let alone kissa e tawee! I shall now respond to brother and all his supporters...

-The reason the I am conducting this in english is that do tell me howmany people, fond of speaking english, would prefer to read an urdu text? Furthermore, do provide me with some urdu keyboard then if you're so conserned about the language of the text.

-About what you said that the great Mughals came from afghanistan and our language, then my dear brother have not you ever seen that 90-99% of the places from where urdu originates, or the homeland of the Mughals *LIE IN THE EAST*!!! 

-...And, do not you understand that it is the beauty of our culture _is_ that so many cultures have been brought togather? Don't you think that you are forgetting that Islam also teaches *UNITY* that does exist when so many different sorts of people come togather. 

-Being a staunch muslim and a Mulana I would remind you that Islam teaches man to follow not only what the Holy Prophet SAW and The Holy Quran teach man, instead it also commands man to follow the discplines of his society, the rightiousness. This is so because Allah whats man not to leave the world for him, NO NO NO NEVER! He prefers that man should face the world and do what is prescribed by Islam. 
 I shall now illustrate this with the following paragraph: (A messenger of Allah once told it to his people):
 Once upon a time, there lived an old man who used to sit near the gate of his city and spent his whole day(s) there in worship of Allah. Allah soon ordered an angel to destroy that city and kill every one, on hearing that the angel questioned why is he doing so when an old man sits there whole day and night in worship, Allah replied:"It is not his worship that I want from him I want him to work and spend his life the way I want"
  We must remeber that the Holy Prophet SAW once said that "Allah is pleased of his servant who comes home tired and retires to bed"
These to references clearly state that even Islam commands man to work the* spirtitual AND the material way. ISLAM TEACHES MAN TO BE MODERATE!!!*
-Now comming to the dresssing part...Let me tell you the purdah of a man:
Thighs to the knees the purdah of a woman is the whole body except for the face, hands and feet. I know almost every one knows this but do you know this:
The dress of a man should not be of a woman.
The dress of a woman should not be of a man.
The dress should not be tight so that the body is visible.
The dress should be baggy or loose so that the body is not visible.
The dress should not be see through.
The dress should not be too apealing.
An ayat of the Holy Quran commnads the mothers of the faithful: "O wives of Muhamad (saw) protect your beauty from the outsiders.." 
Now tell me how much of the wajib purdas are observed with skirts, jeans, 
Dress Shirts (of women), dress pents (of women), And I just forgot to tell you that if you people are so staunch belivers of islam even more than mulana muhamad shahzaib khan than do you know that the tie represents the cross???
-About eating, HALAL is not only food that is not Haraam, Halal food is also that is *SIMPLE*  I don't think that westren food is simple. 
-Especialy dear brother Endurer, have you forgotten what you said to me when I was new to DT? This what you said:

"Salam Shahzaib 

MashAllah  Bohat acha laga apke barey mein jaan ker.* We do share similiar interests by the way. Mujeh poetry to nahi aati per eastern arts mein kaafi interest hai.*
Absolutely looking forward to your kind contributions in the poetry section. "

-Our culture is infact the ISLAMIC culture is you recognise it that Pakistan has a uniqe culture and so what if Indian or according to Bhai Sahab HINDU culture creeps in doesn't Islam teach Toleration??? Anyway, I never even replied to Bhai Sahab about his questions because I left them unanswererd for I thought Bhai Sahab will himself recoginse his IGNO-SENCE!

-Then comes the matter of my party, well I am not fighting a battle agianst any one, belive me I am not a soldier!

-I shall not persuade anyone to do anything I've only expressed an opinion like it tell me you like it, dislike it fine with me...
even then I'd say:
If anyone has a question or a new challenge raise it!!!

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## Shaeireurdu

*Ta'reefen!*

I thank and congratulate the posts of Aadi Sahab, Muzna Sahiba and Khamoshi Sahiba because they are alot more sensible and wise people than many others. Thumbs up to their replies!

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## Shaeireurdu

*Anyone interested?*

Aadaab!
Anyone Interseted In Voting The Poll Above?
Ziada Aadaab!

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## Endurer

> The reason the I am conducting this in english is that do tell me howmany people, fond of speaking english, would prefer to read an urdu text?


I'd.




> Furthermore, do provide me with some urdu keyboard then if you're so conserned about the language of the text.


I am not concerned, you're. Also, you don't need an urdu keyboard to achieve that.




> About what you said that the great Mughals came from afghanistan and our language, then my dear brother have not you ever seen that 90-99% of the places from where urdu originates, or the homeland of the Mughals *LIE IN THE EAST*!!!


I suggest that you do your research before jumping to conclusions. Here's an article that you should read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol




> And, do not you understand that it is the beauty of our culture _is_ that so many cultures have been brought togather?


Beauty? Culture, again? Murjra's you mean, right?




> Don't you think that you are forgetting that Islam also teaches *UNITY* that does exist when so many different sorts of people come togather.


I am not the one who's forgetting that, you are. You are preaching people to follow some obsolete traditions of last century. You're also attempting to draw a line between people living on the same planet. Why? Isn't this discrimination? Does wearing a western dress (that covers my body) makes me a non-muslim? 




> Being a staunch muslim and a Mulana I would remind you that Islam teaches man to follow not only what the Holy Prophet SAW and The Holy Quran teach man, instead it also commands man to follow the discplines of his society, the rightiousness.


This planet is one large society and I am free to find rightousness from any part of the world regardless of their cuisines, outfits, festivals, et al.





> Now comming to the dresssing part...Let me tell you the purdah of a man: Thighs to the knees the purdah of a woman is the whole body except for the face, hands and feet. I know almost every one knows this but do you know this:
> The dress of a man should not be of a woman.
> The dress of a woman should not be of a man.
> The dress should not be tight so that the body is visible.
> The dress should be baggy or loose so that the body is not visible.
> The dress should not be see through.
> The dress should not be too apealing.
> An ayat of the Holy Quran commnads the mothers of the faithful: "O wives of Muhamad (saw) protect your beauty from the outsiders.." 
> Now tell me how much of the wajib purdas are observed with skirts, jeans, 
> Dress Shirts (of women), dress pents (of women).


Have you seen those sari's, tight shalwars from Pakistan? Now tell me if that's not your _culture,_ tell me that it's inspired from the western culture, just tell me anything.




> And I just forgot to tell you that if you people are so staunch belivers of islam even more than mulana muhamad shahzaib khan than do you know that the tie represents the cross???


Oh really? _Inama Amalo biniyat_

Now tell me about the Pepsi, Coke, and Nike.




> -About eating, HALAL is not only food that is not Haraam, Halal food is also that is *SIMPLE* I don't think that westren food is simple.


You don't think or you don't know?




> Our culture is infact the ISLAMIC culture is you recognise it that Pakistan has a uniqe culture and so what if Indian or according to Bhai Sahab HINDU culture creeps in doesn't Islam teach Toleration???


Contradictions personified. I'd really suggest that you decide the theme of this topic first. Is this topic about culture, religion, color, food, clothes, or colas?




> I shall not persuade anyone to do anything I've only expressed an opinion like it tell me you like it, dislike it fine with me...
> even then I'd say: If anyone has a question or a new challenge raise it!!!


You need to open up your mind a little. Don't divide this world anymore, we already have seen enough of Pharoah & Hitler. Respect the rights of others and give them their space. If you see something you don't like, turn around and walk away.

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## mytonse

MArvellous Endurer.

I thought id stay away.Looking forward to reply of the self proclamed "MAulana"...

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## mytonse

And i see a the difference of 2 planets between the poll,the topic and the discussion ..

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## Shaeireurdu

aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
aadaab. I see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.
I've also seen that people mind me being a mulana, I am not an aalim. Nither am I a hafiz e quran, nor does any mulana neceraily has to be because to know the quran is one thing to lean arabic text is the other.
I see that bhai sahab has pointed out that the mughals were mongols, right? I know that because I am a beginer speaker of the  persian language and mughalk means mongol. I was refering to BABUR the lion who spent his early life in afghanistan a chunk of tamur's n oble empire. Babur wanted to caputre samrkand, which he once succeeded in only to b e driven away, when daulat khan invited him to throw Ibrahim, tell me was panipat attacked from the west or the east, the westren side ofcourse! though babur was on top of the map and then came down, as

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## Shaeireurdu

*The Response*

aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
aadaab. I see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.
I've also seen that people mind me being a mulana, I am not an aalim. Nither am I a hafiz e quran, nor does any mulana neceraily has to be because to know the quran is one thing to lean arabic text is the other.
I see that bhai sahab has pointed out that the mughals were mongols, right? I know that because I am a beginer speaker of the  persian language and mughalk means mongol. I was refering to BABUR the lion who spent his early life in afghanistan a chunk of tamur's n oble empire. Babur wanted to caputre samrkand, which he once succeeded in only to b e driven away, when daulat khan invited him to throw Ibrahim, tell me was panipat attacked from the west or the east, the westren side ofcourse! though babur was on top of the map and then came down, as aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
aadaab. I see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.
I've also seen that people mind me being a mulana, I am not an aalim. Nither am I a hafiz e quran, nor does any mulana neceraily has to be because to know the quran is one thing to lean arabic text is the other.
I see that bhai sahab has pointed out that the mughals were mongols, right? I know that because I am a beginer speaker of the  persian language and mughalk means mongol. I was refering to BABUR the lion who spent his early life in afghanistan a chunk of tamur's n oble empire. Babur wanted to caputre samrkand, which he once succeeded in only to b e driven away, when daulat khan invited him to throw Ibrahim, tell me was panipat attacked from the west or the east, the westren side ofcourse! though babur was on top of the map and then came down, as aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
aadaab. I see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.
I've also seen that people mind me being a mulana, I am not an aalim. Nither am I a hafiz e quran, nor does any mulana neceraily has to be because to know the quran is one thing to lean arabic text is the other.
I see that bhai sahab has pointed out that the mughals were mongols, right? I know that because I am a beginer speaker of the  persian language and mughalk means mongol. I was refering to BABUR the lion who spent his early life in afghanistan a chunk of tamur's n oble empire. Babur wanted to caputre samrkand, which he once succeeded in only to b e driven away, when daulat khan invited him to throw Ibrahim, tell me was panipat attacked from the west or the east, the westren side ofcourse! though babur was on top of the map and then came down, as he becvame master of india, did not he bring the afghan culture with him? Now if YOU are so narrow minded i don't know, but i'd give an example if you're wise enough: who brought the spicy meat dishes here and from where?
i see that bhai sahab says that my topic is not the same, if i paint a chain white on one end and black on the other does not the chain remain the same. My main intension was to provoke and motivate the reader not to start a flame war! an internet confict!
mujras are haram is islam and the wetren counter part is prstitiution. how ever, i belive that i did make one mistake: i gave the wrong example when i stated the term "mujras".
...and if you think westren clothing is fine, and tight shalwars or what ever is wrong: then skirts, minis, maxis, dress shirts for women, t-shirts for women, biknies, shorts for men, etc must all be excelent and perfectly in refrence to islamic shariah.
about calling our traditions obselete then do you your parents or grandparents' teachings are obselete? are they obselete? then what are you? i thousnad babiers are born atleast weekly, don't you becdome obselete?
...or is respecting others obselete, is it "uncool"? is is bein sober and decent obselete? is saynig ismilaah obselete? the truth is that in your hearts, islam has become obselete. moral values have become obselete, ethics to you  are "YO MAN!" speak you hypocrates speak!
a pizza topped with all the veggies, chicks etc: simple.
a delicios turkey: simple
an apple pie: simple
a christmas cake: very simple
a cheese burger: very very simple
a smoky steak:extremly simple.
a plate of maash ki daal with roti: extrmly complicated, rich and expansive.
HAPPY?
dressing, food, drinks, etc are all parts of a culrure and a people are recognised from their life styles, we are not white but wear their clothins, we don't live in cold places but eat their food, we are not english but speak thir language, even I am doing so. WE HAVE FORGOTTEN WHO WE ARE.


WHO ARE WE?

I myself have said what bhai sahab has asked me to do, is he cheating me I don't know. I have said it before and i'll say it again: Like what i teach, aprciate it, don't like it turn away!

there may be some other unanswered questions but i shall suggest all those who oppose me to read the holy quran, study maps the right direction, bite into history, recognise who you are and decide your origin and then come confront me. and remember that religion, culture and society are the same, ver heard of the term "islamic society" or "islamic culture" or "islamic dress" and do remember it is not us who want to fight, it is the west, the jews and the enemise of islam who cause violence in this planet.

LA ILA HA ILALA HU MUHAMAD UR RASOOLA ALLAH!

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## Sonhal

ASLAM O ALIKUM 
aap ki batain bilkul thek hain aj kal tou pk main pata he nahi chalta k pk hai ya uk hai hum tou bas sab k lie dua he kar saktay hain k Allah sab muslman  islam k mutabiq zindagi guzarain ore usi nazam ko ikhtyar karain jis ki islam main ijazat hai 
ALLAH HAFIZ

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## Endurer

> aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
> aadaab. I* see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken* the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.


Wasalam.

That does it for me. I don't think this issue or your problem is worthy of my time. 

Have fun.

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## Shaeireurdu

*Victory Atlast!!!*

Aadaab. All Those Who Have Read This, Must Agree That Falsehood Has Been Defeated, Because The Holy Quran States:
_"and Say: Truth Has Come And Falsehood Has Vanished. Surely Falsehood Is Bound To Vanish."_ i Now Ask All Those Who Opposed Me: Do You Have The Faith That Gave Me The Strenth That The Westrener Did Not Have?. Even Though At A Stage It Seemed My Points Have Been Declaered Wrong, But I Knew That Allah Has Said That When One Of His Men Is In Trouble, He Helps Him, Surely He Helps Those Who Submit To His Cause. I Thank Rahen Baji, For Replying To My Invitation By Noy Jumping In To Battle, But Telling Me About The Power Of My Faith. I Am Deeply Thankful To Mohtarma Sonhal Ji For Posting Her Reply On My Dawatul Jihad. One Thing:i Have Meade One Post Wrong, The One At 4:30, I Was Supposed To Re Wrtie The Post As I Did But Accedently Posted The Incomplete Version. Any Way, All Those Who Witnessed This Discussion Must Now Recognise That Mr. Endurer Has Surendered Even Though He May Hide His Defeat, I Always Consider Him My Brother, If He's On The Wrong Path, Then It Is My Duty To Correct Him No Matter He Is Elder To Me. If I Ever Got Controversal In My Discussion, Forgive Me, But I Have Made My Pints, I'd Still Welcome Any More Replies, But Do Remember That You Are Living In The East, Not The West Then Who Gives You The Duty Of Defending A Foregien Culture?
*do You Know Who You Are?*
allah O Akbar!
Ziada Aadaab.

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## AaDi

hmm i really dont know about the 'topic' of this thread .. it started from 'Culture of East (Pakistan & India)' which now has become more of 'What Islam Tells Us To Do' .. 
anyways i'll just throw my general comments .. culture is something which 'people' make .. and 'yes' .. cultures change .. they are really similar to our lifestyles .. for example .. before 80s it was considered bad to educate girls .. now its fine .. or the joint family system (oh and btw .. Islam 'prefers' the guy to have a separate house for his wife after marriage .. they should not stay at their parents place .. and as you are from Pakistan, you would know .. 20 years ago .. telling this to your parents would have been a suicide  :Wink:  ) .. 

and finally .. music is part of a culture .. but its not part of Islam .. you are totally messing up the two topics .. you can either talk about Islamic culture or Asian culture ..

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## Shaeireurdu

*I see...*

Aadaab! I shall not get rude as I got with Mr.Endurer, but I'd just say that please understand the fact that I have combined the religion and culture topics as one, including all sub categories. If you consider this, you will realise that my attack on the west and enemies of Islam and our eastren culture and lovers of war and bloodshed is from all fronts against these. Now if you still belive the topic is a debate, then brother answer me one thing: If I paint a chain balck at one end and white at the other, won't the chain remain the same, except it will look more pretty, would not it?
Answer me.
Khoda Hafiz,
Mulana Muhamad Shahzaib Khan

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## AaDi

I'm sorry .. you would have to rephrase your post .. feel free to explain in Urdu .. because I tried going through it three times .. the consideration part and the question does not make sense at all (if someone else understands it, please feel free to explain) ..

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## glimmering_candle

omg !

plz tell me the summary!
cuz i can't read that all vast story at all!
i hope some1 will define it in suitable words..
n I

i will try my level best to take part in this BATTLE
of east n west!

regards...

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## manni9

> Aadaab! I shall not get rude as I got with Mr.Endurer, but I'd just say that please understand the fact that I have combined the religion and culture topics as one, including all sub categories. If you consider this, you will realise that my attack on the west and enemies of Islam and our eastren culture and lovers of war and bloodshed is from all fronts against these. Now if you still belive the topic is a debate, then brother answer me one thing: If I paint a chain balck at one end and white at the other, won't the chain remain the same, except it will look more pretty, would not it?
> Answer me.
> Khoda Hafiz,
> Mulana Muhamad Shahzaib Khan


Hmmm man tell me India also have a quite similer culture as ours ren't they enemy of islam?
Culture and religion ekk cheez nahi hootin.Aap ke estren culture main kya kuch nahi hoota,dance nahi hoote kya? Mujras n tawaif yeh bhi east hi ki cheezain hain.Kya westren dress pehene say namaz aada nahi hooti kya?
Let me tell you,hamari pehshaan yeh nahi hooni chahiye ke hum kahan say aaye hain bulke hum jo kuch bhi hain hamain ussi tarah pehchana jana chahiye.Bro bura na maniye ga but mujhe aap ki mantakhain kuch samajh nahi aarahin.Ager aap ko west world say ittni "nafrat" hea tou unn ki cheezain kyun use kerte hain,sirf dress hi nahi yeh Computer,Mobile,tv etc inn cheezon ko bhi use na karin cauz inhe bhi west hi nay invent kiya hea.
Peace  :Wink:

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## friendlygal786

I dont understand this thread at all..it has become confusing what the question ur asking is..what topic we r debating on

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## Hina87

Every question has been answered already by Adeel Bhai, and I absolutely agree with him. I also liked Manni Bhai's reply. 

Sometimes we must change to grow with our world. That doesn't mean to become a total American, however. For example, if you are stranded in the middle of nowhere, you are allowed to eat anything, even if it is haram. We must eat it to stay alive. In the end, God will forgive you because you were just trying to stay alive, which is your right. The same thing applies with all of the changes we have made in our culture. Of course, there is a limit to this changing. The next question is, how far is this limit? Eating pizzas, drinking colas, wearing shirt/pants that fully covers you would not be considered offensive. As long as what you are eating is halal; as long as what you are wearing is fully covering your body; as long as you stick to the rules of the Quran, what difference does it make that all those things came from the west?

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## mytonse

@Shairiurdu,

Its not that we are lopsided and defiant but the fact is,a thing hasnt been proven here.Endurer has been direct in giving his answers.And they are to th point.Ill appreciate it if you could do the same.

Present it in a neater way,bro.

Manni Bro and Hina have added other crucial lines.

P.S.-The topic is swaying shairiurdu.Where r u headin ?is it abt the east or Islam or Asian Culture ?Because East has in it all not just Islam.

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## Shaeireurdu

> omg !
> 
> plz tell me the summary!
> cuz i can't read that all vast story at all!
> i hope some1 will define it in suitable words..
> n I
> 
> i will try my level best to take part in this BATTLE
> of east n west!
> ...


Aadaab. Dear sister, I shall give you a brief discription of the theme. The theme is not just about East or west, it is about our culture, religion, and lifestyle being effected by westren influence. Many people don't understand this, but in islam the state, religion and society are the same, and it embraces all sorts of good manners that the eastren culture is rich in. I do not oppose any englisgman here, but oppose those who want to become americans or europeans (this does NOT refer to those living in europe). You can't deny that they are in the hearts of their hearts our enemies, even if we embrace them, what benfit it gives us?
The choice is yours, support the east, support your true identity, your forefathers, support the west then go under slavery for two more centuries...
THE CHOICE IS YOURS!

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## Shaeireurdu

> Hmmm man tell me India also have a quite similer culture as ours ren't they enemy of islam?
> Culture and religion ekk cheez nahi hootin.Aap ke estren culture main kya kuch nahi hoota,dance nahi hoote kya? Mujras n tawaif yeh bhi east hi ki cheezain hain.Kya westren dress pehene say namaz aada nahi hooti kya?
> Let me tell you,hamari pehshaan yeh nahi hooni chahiye ke hum kahan say aaye hain bulke hum jo kuch bhi hain hamain ussi tarah pehchana jana chahiye.Bro bura na maniye ga but mujhe aap ki mantakhain kuch samajh nahi aarahin.Ager aap ko west world say ittni "nafrat" hea tou unn ki cheezain kyun use kerte hain,sirf dress hi nahi yeh Computer,Mobile,tv etc inn cheezon ko bhi use na karin cauz inhe bhi west hi nay invent kiya hea.
> Peace


aadaab. Dear brother, I laughed when I read your response, because I do not have a moblie nor do I need it, I don't watch TV that often, except for my favorite show, raat gaye on PTV, infact, I'd suggest you to watch it too, you'll learn about our dear culture more that way. About the computer, no one american or european invented it, infact, al khawarzmi is the reason we have computers working, and the abacus was from our brother nation, China. I'm not defending myself, I'm just asking you, WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A FOREGIEN CULTURE AND ATTACKING THE CULTURE YOU WERE BORN WITH? Don't want to live here, fine, we don't need you, but remenber that there ios diffrence between HOME and HOUSE. ...And who told you mashra aur mazhab aik nahin, kya islam hamein yeh nahin sikhata keh Quran hyaat keh her pehlo ke waste hae? Kiya allah ne hukam nahin diya keh woh tarika jo hamne tumko sikhaya hae us par amal karo, kiya bermude, aur nikarein hamare wajib parde ko kayam karte hein? apne aap ko dekhye, kya aap kon hein???

----------


## Shaeireurdu

> @Shairiurdu,
> 
> Its not that we are lopsided and defiant but the fact is,a thing hasnt been proven here.Endurer has been direct in giving his answers.And they are to th point.Ill appreciate it if you could do the same.
> 
> Present it in a neater way,bro.
> 
> Manni Bro and Hina have added other crucial lines.
> 
> P.S.-The topic is swaying shairiurdu.Where r u headin ?is it abt the east or Islam or Asian Culture ?Because East has in it all not just Islam.


Aadaab. I shall sumarise my points here:
-We live in the east. Our culture is Islam. We all have been raised up in this land.
-In islam, unlike other religions, religion and state are one. So is the society.
-We have a rich cultre but it is being attacked by our ownselves due to westren influence.
-Embracing westren culture is not wrong, but prefeing westren things on our own is not acceptable, because that will be slavery again, GHULAAMI, not for another two centuries, but forever.
-Here I explain my reasons for hating the west:
Acivilain killing another civilian is murder, therefore, the Muslims butchered in Bosnia were murdered and whole of europe aided the murderers. This ws under the name of ETHINIC CLEANSING to AVIOD THE SETTING UP OF A MUSLIM STATE IN EUROPE.
We all know how we have been treated by the british, danish and french masters. It used to be written outside parks: "no hindus and dogs allowed" dogs refers to muslims.
Who destroyed the world trade cintre: GEORGE WALKER BUSH and it is proven! Then who attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? Who masacared the Afghan and Iraqi defenders, miscalled insurgents.
Who made Israel a nuclear power? Who???
Who supports the Israeli war machine?
Do you feel the pain of our Afghan, Iraqi, Palestenisan, AND all the others suffering due to the westren countries? 
Do you know a CD was discovered in which it was stated Usa will attack Pakistan (alhamdulilah the therat seems to be over)?
-I have challenged each and every point of brother adeel. You can read the thread agian, and you'll find out that adeel bro was baseless, who was he defending?
-I agree that many points suggested by the posters may have been true, but when the graet realities of the world come in contact to those points, they vanish!
-I love my country, and this is my way of expressing my love, tell me how many even mentioned the word "Pakistan"? The east and pakistan are the same, and so is islam, except that the culture adds mening to a religion. I shall see if you are satisfied, if not, than I shall present a re-written version of the first post (The dying East).
till then, allah hafiz...

----------


## manni9

> aadaab. Dear brother, I laughed when I read your response, because I do not have a moblie nor do I need it, I don't watch TV that often, except for my favorite show, raat gaye on PTV, infact, I'd suggest you to watch it too, you'll learn about our dear culture more that way. About the computer, no one american or european invented it, infact, al khawarzmi is the reason we have computers working, and the abacus was from our brother nation, China. I'm not defending myself, I'm just asking you, WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A FOREGIEN CULTURE AND ATTACKING THE CULTURE YOU WERE BORN WITH? Don't want to live here, fine, we don't need you, but remenber that there ios diffrence between HOME and HOUSE. ...And who told you mashra aur mazhab aik nahin, kya islam hamein yeh nahin sikhata keh Quran hyaat keh her pehlo ke waste hae? Kiya allah ne hukam nahin diya keh woh tarika jo hamne tumko sikhaya hae us par amal karo, kiya bermude, aur nikarein hamare wajib parde ko kayam karte hein? apne aap ko dekhye, kya aap kon hein???


Shuker hea ke aap hamari baat say muskuraye tou sahi  :Big Grin: 
Bro mera matlab internet n stuff say tha,aap jo pc or notebook use ker rahe hain usse bhi west walon say khareeda gaya China nay computer patent nahi keraya tha i think.
Bro aap kyun ittni nafratain pehlana chate hain?
Ab mujhe aap bata dain ke Pizza khana haram hea?
or jo hamare culture main jesi shaadian hooti hain uss main ittna risk phikh ka jaata hea kya wooh halal hea?
Wese bhi Hazoor (s.w.w) nay kabhi bhi kurta shalwar nahi pehni thi tou kya yeh dress bhi haram ho gaya?
PTV dekhna tou aap iss tarah keh rahe hain ke  barda sawab ka kaam hea?jo late night ghazals aati hain woh sub halal hain kya?
main East culture main betahasha essi cheezain ginwa sakta hoon jo islam main haram hain aur west main na jaane kitni hi cheesain hain jo halaal hain.
Bro baat idher uder na ghumain, just tell me "PLEASE" ke hindus bhi islam dushman hain tou phir kya unn ka culture follow kerna theek hea?
Well main her culture ke khilaf hoon chahe kahin ka bhi ho cauz essi baaton ka islam main koi tasavur nahi hea.Insaanon main pehle hi beinteha nafratain hain,ager hum unhe kum nahi ker sakte tou phir barda bhi kyun rahe hain??

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## AaDi

We all know this .. and we all see this .. but sorry to say jo log west ko apna rahay hain .. woh nah toh yahan atay hain .. aur nah he aap ki awaz DT se un tak pohanchay gi .. ur singing the right song but using the wrong instrument .. 

Es thread main agar Allahuakbar post karne se Pakistan ka culture change ho jaye ga toh baat aur hoti .. I'll still say .. try using some other medium for your voice and it might help you more .. You keep telling/pm-ing people to come and *discuss* .. jab keh you dont want to discuss because you have already made up your mind .. one person tried it aur os ko aap poray forum main ghaseet-te phir rahe hain (what an example of Islamic brotherhood!!) .. 

Aap main josh kafi hai .. baat tab banay gi bhai jab aap es ko forum pe posting keh ilawa kahein aur use karein toh ...

----------


## manni9

> Aadaab. I shall sumarise my points here:
> -We live in the east. Our culture is Islam. We all have been raised up in this land.
> -In islam, unlike other religions, religion and state are one. So is the society.
> -We have a rich cultre but it is being attacked by our ownselves due to westren influence.
> -Embracing westren culture is not wrong, but prefeing westren things on our own is not acceptable, because that will be slavery again, GHULAAMI, not for another two centuries, but forever.
> -Here I explain my reasons for hating the west:
> Acivilain killing another civilian is murder, therefore, the Muslims butchered in Bosnia were murdered and whole of europe aided the murderers. This ws under the name of ETHINIC CLEANSING to AVIOD THE SETTING UP OF A MUSLIM STATE IN EUROPE.
> We all know how we have been treated by the british, danish and french masters. It used to be written outside parks: "no hindus and dogs allowed" dogs refers to muslims.
> Who destroyed the world trade cintre: GEORGE WALKER BUSH and it is proven! Then who attacked Afghanistan and Iraq? Who masacared the Afghan and Iraqi defenders, miscalled insurgents.
> ...


Masha Allah very nice points but tell us "What it have to do with west culture??"
China n India are also east re they also islam?

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## Hina87

> _ -I agree that many points suggested by the posters may have been true, but when the graet realities of the world come in contact to those points, they vanish!_


Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities? And what about my post? I have been eagerly awaiting your response to it.

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## AaDi

> Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities? And what about my post? I have been eagerly awaiting your response to it.


lol hina .. he totally ignored my post  :Big Grin:  .. seems like if he cant reply to someone .. he just ignores them .. he did the similar thing in another thread as well .. abh hum bhi keh sakte hain .. 'he has been silenced' :biggrin:

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## mytonse

> Aadaab. I shall sumarise my points here:
> -We live in the east. Our culture is Islam. We all have been raised up in this land.


We have been raised in the east but not all have.Infact people in the west are more of a muslim than a few people in the east.What have you got to say abt that ?



> -In islam, unlike other religions, religion and state are one. So is the society.


That is not true.Please read through other scriptures.Islam isnt the only one.



> -We have a rich cultre but it is being attacked by our ownselves due to westren influence.


your point below contardicts this question.



> -Embracing westren culture is not wrong, but prefeing westren things on our own is not acceptable, because that will be slavery again, GHULAAMI, not for another two centuries, but forever.


Slavery is better banned and looked after in western hemisphere,unlik eis the eastern areas,eg,Saudi where housemaids are being tortured and even raped.[/quote]

Earlier you quoted that you dnt  mind western influence but further on your starting to hate it.



> -Here I explain my reasons for hating the west:
> A civilain killing another civilian is murder, therefore, the Muslims butchered in Bosnia were murdered and whole of europe aided the murderers. This ws under the name of ETHINIC CLEANSING to AVIOD THE SETTING UP OF A MUSLIM STATE IN EUROPE.


I have no information on this incident.Will let you know in sometime.



> We all know how we have been treated by the british, danish and french masters. It used to be written outside parks: "no hindus and dogs allowed" dogs refers to muslims.


Never heard of this.Where did yo get this from ?



> Who destroyed the world trade cintre: GEORGE WALKER BUSH and it is proven!


Wouldnt he be impeached if it was proven ??Its a baseless argument.Show me the proof.Debate is done through proofs not just smack of words .




> Who made Israel a nuclear power? Who???
> Who supports the Israeli war machine?
> Do you feel the pain of our Afghan, Iraqi, Palestenisan, AND all the others suffering due to the westren countries?


What has dis to do with Eastern culture ?




> Do you know a CD was discovered in which it was stated Usa will attack Pakistan (alhamdulilah the therat seems to be over)?


I know of no such CD.If so upload it.Well see it for ourselves.




> -I have challenged each and every point of brother adeel. You can read the thread agian, and you'll find out that adeel bro was baseless, who was he defending?


You have challenged but proven not a single point against him.on the contrary he has given superior ansers with proof.



> -I agree that many points suggested by the posters may have been true, but when the graet realities of the world come in contact to those points, they vanish!


Thats the most gibberish ,obselete remark.It has no stand whatsoever.



> -I love my country, and this is my way of expressing my love, tell me how many even mentioned the word "Pakistan"? The east and pakistan are the same, and so is islam, except that the culture adds mening to a religion. I shall see if you are satisfied, if not, than I shall present a re-written version of the first post (The dying East).
> till then, allah hafiz...


East is not equal to PAkistan/ISlam.Islam is the religion of the gulf,Saudi Arabia is the land of Islam.You are heading a wrng voice at the forums.Looking forward to rewritten one.

----------


## Endurer

> aslamoaliekumwarehmatallah!
> aadaab. I see that my friendly and peaceful article has been turned into a battlefield and that my polite reply has been broken the way bloody USA broke the peaceful USSR.


Wasalam. Aap isse pur-aman kehte ho? yeh taashub hai jo aap phailana chah rahe ho.




> I see that bhai sahab has pointed out that the mughals were mongols, right? I know that because I am a beginer speaker of the persian language and mughalk means mongol. I was refering to BABUR the lion who spent his early life in afghanistan a chunk of tamur's n oble empire. Babur wanted to caputre samrkand, which he once succeeded in only to b e driven away, when daulat khan invited him to throw Ibrahim, tell me was panipat attacked from the west or the east, the westren side ofcourse! though babur was on top of the map and then came down,  as he becvame master of india, did not he bring the afghan culture with him? Now if YOU are so narrow minded i don't know, but i'd give an example if you're wise enough: who brought the spicy meat dishes here and from where?


Mirch masalay ka is behas se kiya lena dena?




> i see that bhai sahab says that my topic is not the same, if i paint a chain white on one end and black on the other does not the chain remain the same. My main intension was to provoke and motivate the reader not to start a flame war! an internet confict!


Dosron ko yeh keh ker k angraiz bure hote hien, unki tahzeb, tamadun, ikhlaq sab ghatiya hai; aap kiya nafrat k anbar nahi laga rahey? Yeh dunya pehle hi mazhab, zaat, nasal, rung mein batt chuke hai, or dosre taraf aap aag laga rahe hien. Kyun? Kese bhool gae aap k hum sab aik baap ki oulad hien? Yeh dunya to faani hai, ussi tarha yeh tehzeeb bhi. 




> ...and if you think westren clothing is fine, and tight shalwars or what ever is wrong: then skirts, minis, maxis, dress shirts for women, t-shirts for women, biknies, shorts for men, etc must all be excelent and perfectly in refrence to islamic shariah.


Lagta hai aap bohat ziada TV dekhte hien or shayed hakekat apke kareb se nahi guzre. Shayed kabhi aap bahir jao to apko andaza ho k jitna barha charha ker yahan bataya jata hai, utna wahan hota nahi. Jis tehzeb mein aap rehte ho wahan naqab kerne wali aurat ko bhi burri nazron se dekha jata hai (sach hai or aap jante ho) muashrati masayael shayed yahan sab se berh ker hien. Is sab mein kasor tehzeb ka, parwarish ka, mazbah ka, ya ikdaar ka? Ab keh di jiye k ismein bhi maghrib ka kasor hai.




> about calling our traditions obselete then do you your parents or grandparents' teachings are obselete? are they obselete?


Mere buzurg aaj hayat nahi, is liye nahi janta k unke traditions kese hote they. Jahan tak walden ka sawal hai to mujeh unhon ne ache or burrey kerne mein tamez sikhaye. Insan ko insan samjhna sikhaya, or faqt bahami hum ahangi ki binaa per kissi ko dost or tafreeq per dushmani kerne se mana farmaya. Shayed yehi waja hai k aaj mein kissi ko apne se kamtar nahi manta.




> then what are you? i thousnad babiers are born atleast weekly, don't you becdome obselete?


Older, not obsolete.




> ...or is respecting others obselete, is it "uncool"? is is bein sober and decent obselete? is saynig ismilaah obselete? the truth is that in your hearts, islam has become obselete. moral values have become obselete, ethics to you are "YO MAN!" speak you hypocrates speak!


Ap agar ikhlaq k dairey mein reh ker baat keren to mujeh aap se baat kerne mein asaani hogi. Purana ya bemaksad ya bura woh hai jo apko insan se janwar bana de. Shayed aap bhool rahe hien k jis culture ko aap farogh dene yahan tashref laye hien, wohi culture izzat ki bina per qatal jaiz qarar deta hai. Yeh wohi culture hai jahan zaat se bahir shadi kerne per kataa taluq ker lia jata hai, wohi culture jahan aurat ki zindagi sirf uske shohar ki ghulami hai. Aap k is culture ney Islam ko neya rung dia, uska woh catholics wala matlab nikala k jo hamare lie theek woh le ao or jo hamare lie ghalat usse nazar andaz ker do. Yeh wohi culture hai jahan aur ko aik talaq milne ka matlab sari zindagi ki ghulami hai. Islam to is sab ki ijazat nahi deta, to phir apke culture mein aisa kyun? Kiya kabhi socha is per? Ya abhi bhi aap tablay or ghungroun ki jhankar mein hi madhosh hien? 




> a pizza topped with all the veggies, chicks etc: simple.
> a delicios turkey: simple
> an apple pie: simple
> a christmas cake: very simple
> a cheese burger: very very simple
> a smoky steak:extremly simple.
> a plate of maash ki daal with roti: extrmly complicated, rich and expansive.
> HAPPY?


In sab mein se main daal or apple pie ko tarjeeh deta hoon. Dosre cheezain menen aaj tak khayen nahi.




> dressing, food, drinks, etc are all parts of a culrure and a people are recognised from their life styles, we are not white but wear their clothins, we don't live in cold places but eat their food, we are not english but speak thir language, even I am doing so. WE HAVE FORGOTTEN WHO WE ARE.


Waqaye? Mein to nahi bhola. Shayed aap hi insecurity ya ehsas-e-kamtari ka shikar hien. Halanke Urdu mere madri zuban nahi phir bhi mein koshish kerta hoon k apne ahbab mein issi zuban mein baat keron. Per aap ki to baat hi kuch aur hai, abhi bhi ussi firangi zuban k sahare apne larkharate howe masle per behas ker rahe hien.

Ab aap se guzarish hai k nafrat or taasub philane se baaz ayen. Pyaar se ki gae baat ziada jaldi samjh aate hai or asaar bhi kerti hai.

----------


## Shaeireurdu

Aadaab.
Reading brother's post, I shall, continue in urdu. I wanted to do so in the first place, but feared that people may have diffuculty understanding, because I type very fast and often mispel word due to hitting the wrong key, e.g, I meant the word "promonent" in the VICTORY ATLAST post but typed "Proponent" forgive me for this mistake.
Intahai shermendagi ka izhaar karta hoon keh kuch logon keh sawalaat ke jawaab na de paya, meri ghiflat hae keh un per ghor na kiya, maf kijye ga.
Bahi jaan ke andaaz se (jo sab ko passand hae) apna jawaab pesh karta hoon:



> if you are stranded in the middle of nowhere, you are allowed to eat anything, even if it is haram. We must eat it to stay alive. In the end, God will forgive you because you were just trying to stay alive, which is your right


Is baat se to sab wabesta hein, yeh bataye keh is ka mujh se kiya taakul, yaqeeen manye, mujh par kabhi ese naubat nahin ayi!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hina87  
Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities? And what about my post? I have been eagerly awaiting your response to it. 




> lol hina .. he totally ignored my post  .. seems like if he cant reply to someone .. he just ignores them .. he did the similar thing in another thread as well .. abh hum bhi keh sakte hain .. 'he has been silenced'


Zubaan sambhaal kar irshaad kijiye. Mein aaj aap hi ki taref karne wala tha keh yeh ghustaakhi per dedah parah. Kher, jo aap ka haq hae, so woh to hae: 



> We all know this .. and we all see this .. but sorry to say jo log west ko apna rahay hain .. woh nah toh yahan atay hain .. aur nah he aap ki awaz DT se un tak pohanchay gi .. ur singing the right song but using the wrong instrument .. 
> 
> Es thread main agar Allahuakbar post karne se Pakistan ka culture change ho jaye ga toh baat aur hoti .. I'll still say .. try using some other medium for your voice and it might help you more .. You keep telling/pm-ing people to come and *discuss* .. jab keh you dont want to discuss because you have already made up your mind .. one person tried it aur os ko aap poray forum main ghaseet-te phir rahe hain (what an example of Islamic brotherhood!!) .. 
> 
> Aap main josh kafi hai .. baat tab banay gi bhai jab aap es ko forum pe posting keh ilawa kahein aur use karein toh ...


Bialkul dorost! Sahi farmaya, mein endurer sahab ko mafi nama tehrir karne hi laga tha kyoonkeh un ko waq bura bhala keh na ghustaakhi thi aur is ke waste unse mazarat magne laga tha, ba'ad az jawaab, mafi nama pohonch jaye ga. 




> Shuker hea ke aap hamari baat say muskuraye tou sahi


Muskuraya nahin tha, sandali se hans hans kar gir gaya tha. :biggrin:




> PTV dekhna tou aap iss tarah keh rahe hain ke barda sawab ka kaam hea?jo late night ghazals aati hain woh sub halal hain kya?


Aik ayat lake dein keh musiqi haram hae, yeh mahez ghalat molwiyoon ki baat hae, Quraan ka intakhaab kijiye. Gar hae to kabhi lafz "Ijtihad" suna hae?
PTV woh wahid chanel hae jahan par adab se mutaliq baten hoiti hein. Mein PTV ke andar ke mahol se bhi wabasta hoon, ab wahan par bhi ajab ajab log ane lag gaye hein, lekin, raat gaye aik aisa program hae jo aman passand logon aur elm, woh elm jo aap ko lazat e mashriq se wabestah kare ga se aap ko aashna karta hae.

Phir to aap ko mera shayer hona bhi bura laga hoga?!



> You keep telling/pm-ing people to come and *discuss* .. jab keh you dont want to discuss because you have already made up your mind ..


Baat mere ya aap ke nazarye ki nahin, baat yeh hae keh, mazhab mazhab mein firqe hein, to aap log kiya dunya ko milana chate hein?




> Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities?


Zubaan sambhaal kar! Kabhi akhbaar para hae, yeh khabar nama suna hae?
CNN BBC keh ilawa?




> "What it have to do with west culture??"


Dunya ka naqsha ghor se dekhye, yeh daishat gardiyaan kahan ho rahin hein? 
(ab yah na sunane baeth jaye ga keh yahan bhi hoti hae, kehne se muraad yeh keh aap logon se mutaliq, ya'ni MUSLAMAAN, logon ke khilaaf kya ho raha hae.

Ab bahi jaan ki janab chalte hein. ASLAMOALIEKUMWAREHMATULLAH! Yahan wapas aana kese huwa? mein to aap ke waqt ka qayal hi nahin?




> Mirch masalay ka is behas se kiya lena dena?





> Now if YOU are so narrow minded i don't know, but i'd give an example if you're wise enough: who brought the spicy meat dishes here and from where?


Mene pehle hi arz kar diya tha keh yeh faqt aik misal hae. Yeh aik saboot hae jo sab kehte hein na saboot de saboot de, yeh lein aik sabopot to yeh hae!




> Dosron ko yeh keh ker k angraiz bure hote hien, unki tahzeb, tamadun, ikhlaq sab ghatiya hai; aap kiya nafrat k anbar nahi laga rahey? Yeh dunya pehle hi mazhab, zaat, nasal, rung mein batt chuke hai, or dosre taraf aap aag laga rahe hien. Kyun? Kese bhool gae aap k hum sab aik baap ki oulad hien? Yeh dunya to faani hai, ussi tarha yeh tehzeeb bhi.


Hayaat to yahin guzarni hae na? khuda ko kya kehenge, ya rab mene teri banyi us zamin se ghadari ki aur doson ke peche dhor para? Kya maghrib ke log hamse nafarat nahin karte?




> Lagta hai aap bohat ziada TV dekhte hien or shayed hakekat apke kareb se nahi guzre


Ji nahin, mein TV par siraf do chanel dekhta hoon, jabkeh meri hamsherah aur walda doosre bhi dekhtin hein. Woh channels Peace TV aur raat gaye keh liye PTV hein. Mein yahan ke aur hindustaan ke un afraad ki baat kar raha tha jo yeh aopna te hein, jab keh maghrib mein HEIN SAHI par woh dosare libass bhi pehante hein,magar aap se bradaerana sawaal hae:
Kiya woh humare lebaas pehante hein???



> Mere buzurg aaj hayat nahi, is liye nahi janta k unke traditions kese hote they


Tareeekh ne hamein un rawayoon se aashna kar diya hae.

----------


## Shaeireurdu

*Salam.*

Aadaab.
Reading brother's post, I shall, continue in urdu. I wanted to do so in the first place, but feared that people may have diffuculty understanding, because I type very fast and often mispel word due to hitting the wrong key, e.g, I meant the word "promonent" in the VICTORY ATLAST post but typed "Proponent" forgive me for this mistake.
Intahai shermendagi ka izhaar karta hoon keh kuch logon keh sawalaat ke jawaab na de paya, meri ghiflat hae keh un per ghor na kiya, maf kijye ga.
Bahi jaan ke andaaz se (jo sab ko passand hae) apna jawaab pesh karta hoon:



> if you are stranded in the middle of nowhere, you are allowed to eat anything, even if it is haram. We must eat it to stay alive. In the end, God will forgive you because you were just trying to stay alive, which is your right


Is baat se to sab wabesta hein, yeh bataye keh is ka mujh se kiya taakul, yaqeeen manye, mujh par kabhi ese naubat nahin ayi!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hina87  
Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities? And what about my post? I have been eagerly awaiting your response to it. 




> lol hina .. he totally ignored my post  .. seems like if he cant reply to someone .. he just ignores them .. he did the similar thing in another thread as well .. abh hum bhi keh sakte hain .. 'he has been silenced'


Zubaan sambhaal kar irshaad kijiye. Mein aaj aap hi ki taref karne wala tha keh yeh ghustaakhi per dedah parah. Kher, jo aap ka haq hae, so woh to hae: 



> We all know this .. and we all see this .. but sorry to say jo log west ko apna rahay hain .. woh nah toh yahan atay hain .. aur nah he aap ki awaz DT se un tak pohanchay gi .. ur singing the right song but using the wrong instrument .. 
> 
> Es thread main agar Allahuakbar post karne se Pakistan ka culture change ho jaye ga toh baat aur hoti .. I'll still say .. try using some other medium for your voice and it might help you more .. You keep telling/pm-ing people to come and *discuss* .. jab keh you dont want to discuss because you have already made up your mind .. one person tried it aur os ko aap poray forum main ghaseet-te phir rahe hain (what an example of Islamic brotherhood!!) .. 
> 
> Aap main josh kafi hai .. baat tab banay gi bhai jab aap es ko forum pe posting keh ilawa kahein aur use karein toh ...


Bialkul dorost! Sahi farmaya, mein endurer sahab ko mafi nama tehrir karne hi laga tha kyoonkeh un ko waq bura bhala keh na ghustaakhi thi aur is ke waste unse mazarat magne laga tha, ba'ad az jawaab, mafi nama pohonch jaye ga. 




> Shuker hea ke aap hamari baat say muskuraye tou sahi


Muskuraya nahin tha, sandali se hans hans kar gir gaya tha. :biggrin:




> PTV dekhna tou aap iss tarah keh rahe hain ke barda sawab ka kaam hea?jo late night ghazals aati hain woh sub halal hain kya?


Aik ayat lake dein keh musiqi haram hae, yeh mahez ghalat molwiyoon ki baat hae, Quraan ka intakhaab kijiye. Gar hae to kabhi lafz "Ijtihad" suna hae?
PTV woh wahid chanel hae jahan par adab se mutaliq baten hoiti hein. Mein PTV ke andar ke mahol se bhi wabasta hoon, ab wahan par bhi ajab ajab log ane lag gaye hein, lekin, raat gaye aik aisa program hae jo aman passand logon aur elm, woh elm jo aap ko lazat e mashriq se wabestah kare ga se aap ko aashna karta hae.

Phir to aap ko mera shayer hona bhi bura laga hoga?!



> You keep telling/pm-ing people to come and *discuss* .. jab keh you dont want to discuss because you have already made up your mind ..


Baat mere ya aap ke nazarye ki nahin, baat yeh hae keh, mazhab mazhab mein firqe hein, to aap log kiya dunya ko milana chate hein?




> Excuse me for being so blunt, but what the heck does that supposed to mean? What realities?


Zubaan sambhaal kar! Kabhi akhbaar para hae, yeh khabar nama suna hae?
CNN BBC keh ilawa?




> "What it have to do with west culture??"


Dunya ka naqsha ghor se dekhye, yeh daishat gardiyaan kahan ho rahin hein? 
(ab yah na sunane baeth jaye ga keh yahan bhi hoti hae, kehne se muraad yeh keh aap logon se mutaliq, ya'ni MUSLAMAAN, logon ke khilaaf kya ho raha hae.

Ab bahi jaan ki janab chalte hein. ASLAMOALIEKUMWAREHMATULLAH! Yahan wapas aana kese huwa? mein to aap ke waqt ka qayal hi nahin?




> Mirch masalay ka is behas se kiya lena dena?





> Now if YOU are so narrow minded i don't know, but i'd give an example if you're wise enough: who brought the spicy meat dishes here and from where?


Mene pehle hi arz kar diya tha keh yeh faqt aik misal hae. Yeh aik saboot hae jo sab kehte hein na saboot de saboot de, yeh lein aik sabopot to yeh hae!




> Dosron ko yeh keh ker k angraiz bure hote hien, unki tahzeb, tamadun, ikhlaq sab ghatiya hai; aap kiya nafrat k anbar nahi laga rahey? Yeh dunya pehle hi mazhab, zaat, nasal, rung mein batt chuke hai, or dosre taraf aap aag laga rahe hien. Kyun? Kese bhool gae aap k hum sab aik baap ki oulad hien? Yeh dunya to faani hai, ussi tarha yeh tehzeeb bhi.


Hayaat to yahin guzarni hae na? khuda ko kya kehenge, ya rab mene teri banyi us zamin se ghadari ki aur doson ke peche dhor para? Kya maghrib ke log hamse nafarat nahin karte?




> Lagta hai aap bohat ziada TV dekhte hien or shayed hakekat apke kareb se nahi guzre


Ji nahin, mein TV par siraf do chanel dekhta hoon, jabkeh meri hamsherah aur walda doosre bhi dekhtin hein. Woh channels Peace TV aur raat gaye keh liye PTV hein. Mein yahan ke aur hindustaan ke un afraad ki baat kar raha tha jo yeh aopna te hein, jab keh maghrib mein HEIN SAHI par woh dosare libass bhi pehante hein,magar aap se bradaerana sawaal hae:
Kiya woh humare lebaas pehante hein???



> Mere buzurg aaj hayat nahi, is liye nahi janta k unke traditions kese hote they


Tareeekh ne hamein un rawayoon se aashna kar diya hae.



> Older, not obsolete.


our culture - older, not obselete.



> Ap agar ikhlaq k dairey mein reh ker baat keren to mujeh aap se baat kerne mein asaani hogi





> Purana ya bemaksad ya bura woh hai jo apko insan se janwar bana de.


Tusi gal ik karo! 



> Jis tehzeb mein aap rehte ho wahan naqab kerne wali aurat ko bhi burri nazron se dekha jata hai (sach hai or aap jante ho) muashrati masayael shayed yahan sab se berh ker hien. Is sab mein kasor tehzeb ka, parwarish ka, mazbah ka, ya ikdaar ka? Ab keh di jiye k ismein bhi maghrib ka kasor hai.


Kasoor tuwada hega! Na te ae kasoor mashre da, na kisi duji gal da, ide wich kasoor sade apne dilan da hae. Tusi parde se ghamze di umeed na lagaya karo! Aurtaan noon na dikha karo!




> In sab mein se main daal or apple pie ko tarjeeh deta hoon. Dosre cheezain menen aaj tak khayen nahi.


mujhe kiya!




> Waqaye? Mein to nahi bhola. Shayed aap hi insecurity ya ehsas-e-kamtari ka shikar hien. Halanke Urdu mere madri zuban nahi phir bhi mein koshish kerta hoon k apne ahbab mein issi zuban mein baat keron. Per aap ki to baat hi kuch aur hai, abhi bhi ussi firangi zuban k sahare apne larkharate howe masle per behas ker rahe hien.


mein kis zubaan mein tehrir kar raha hoon? aap ki maadri zubaan kiya hae? aapas ki baat hae keh mene aur kayi jo mazamin is anuaan per tehrir kiye woh sab urdu mein hein. 

Na mein larayi chahat hoon na aap log, baat bas yeh hae, keh gar ham mil kar aik aman passand zawaal banayen, to shayed kabhi koi aur is sab ko parh kar khush hoga keh is bahas ko hamne khatam kiya yoon keh ne meri baat na teri (ya'ni aap logon ki) baat. 
Lekin kya karoon? majboor hoon eshq e Iqbaal se. Majboor hoon eshq e watan se? Majboor hoon jazba e jihaad se? mene socha tha keh zawaal le ayoon ga, par nahin, mein hatne wala nahin, mein koi bahas nahin kar raha, mein aap logon tak kuch aisi baaten pohnchana chata hoo n keh aap log bhi jaanen. Yeh keh dena keh "mene koi aisi baat nahin suni keh..." kya nafrat nahin? Nahin yaqeen hota to mein koi waqeel nain kehj adalat mein saboot pesh karon. Jayen, poochen kisi waqeel se keh "bhai sahab mujhe Muhamad Shahzaib Khan ke khilaaf case larna hae". yeh aik forum hae, koi medan e jang ya adalat nahin, haan, par jahan zaroorat pare behas ki, wahan karn pare gi! Yaad rakhiye keh in ashaar per mene apna kanoon banaya:
(is mein bhi koi ghalti hae to Allamah Muhamad Iqbaal R.A se pochna)

TARANA E MILI

CHEEN O ARAB HUMARA HINDUSTAAN HUMARA
MUSLIM HEIN HUM WATAN HAE SARA JAHAN HUMARA

DUNYA KE BUT KADOON MEIN PEHLA WOH GHAR KHUDA KA
HAM US KE PAASBAAN HEIN, WOH PAASBAAN HUMARA

TAUHID KI AMANAT SENO MEIN HAE HUMARI
ASAANAHIN MITANA NAM O NISHANN HUMARA

TEGHON KE SAYE MEIN HAM PAL KAR JAWAAN HUWE HEIN
KHANJAR HILAAL KA HAE QOMI NISHAAN HUMARA

MAGHRIB KI WADYOON MEIN GUNJI AZAN HUMARI
THAM THMA NA THA KISI SE SEL E RAWAAN HUMARA

AE GULISTAAN E ANDALUS WOH DIN HEIN YAAD TUJH KO
THA TERI DALYOON PER JAB ASHIYAAN HUMARA

AYE MOJ E DIJLA TU BHI PEHCHAANTI HAE HUM KO
HAE KOOON TERI RAGO MEIN AB TAK RAWAAN HUMARA

IQBAAL KA TARAN HAE BANG E DARA GOYA
HOTA HAE JADA PEMA PHIR KARVAAN HUMARA

Es ke ilawa un ke chand aur ashaar yeh hein:
KABHI AE HAQIQAT E MUNTAZIR NAZAR AA LIBAAS E MAJAZ MEIN
KEH HAZAROON SAJDE TARAP RAHE HEIN MERI JABEEN E NIAZ MEIN

NA WOH ESHQ MEIN RAHIN GARMIYAAN NA WOH HUSN MEIN RAHIN SHOKHIYAAN
NA GHAZNAVI MEIN TARAP RAHI NA KHAM HAE ZULF E AYAAZ MEIN

KABHI MEIN SARBASAJDA HUWA KABHI TO ZAMEEN SE ANE LAGI SADA TERA DIL TO HAE SANAM AASHNA TUJHE KYA MELE GA NAMMAZ MEIN

AAB BLOYE!!!

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## Shaeireurdu

*allah O Akbar!*

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## manni9

lol Jinn baaton ka jawab nahi desakte thee unhe tou aap ignore ker gaye.
Aap ki post main koi new baat nazar nahi aai.
Haan poetry achi thi.

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## Shaeireurdu

> lol Jinn baaton ka jawab nahi desakte thee unhe tou aap ignore ker gaye.
> Aap ki post main koi new baat nazar nahi aai.
> Haan poetry achi thi.


Are bhai, aik masla hae, aik ghalti hae jo mein manta hoon, abhi bhi do chaar aise log hein jin ka sawaal nahin yaad rakh paya, jese, Mytonse sahab ko bhool hi gaya, ab aur kaam hein, jawaab agli baaar sahi. Rekhta passand karne ke liye Tasleem.

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## Shaeireurdu

aman jang se behtar hae!

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## Shaeireurdu

*allahoakbar!*

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## mytonse

@Shairiurdu,

I find you totally ignoring my posts.Not a single reply to my points.Seems someone just took a backseat.

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## Endurer

> Aadaab.
> Reading brother's post, I shall, continue in urdu. I wanted to do so in the first place, but feared that people may have diffuculty understanding


You care? Thats funny actually.




> Zubaan sambhaal kar! Kabhi akhbaar para hae, yeh khabar nama suna hae? CNN BBC keh ilawa?


I know this question isn't directed towards me but here goes: Your tv channels are run by a group of servile clowns like you who're afraid to tell the truth.




> Ab bahi jaan ki janab chalte hein. ASLAMOALIEKUMWAREHMATULLAH! Yahan wapas aana kese huwa? mein to aap ke waqt ka qayal hi nahin?


Your miserable offtopic drifting syndrome brought me back. Is there a problem? 




> Hayaat to yahin guzarni hae na? khuda ko kya kehenge, ya rab mene teri banyi us zamin se ghadari ki aur doson ke peche dhor para? Kya maghrib ke log hamse nafarat nahin karte?


Close minded fuck. Grow up, for heaven's sake.




> Ji nahin, mein TV par siraf do chanel dekhta hoon, jabkeh meri hamsherah aur walda doosre bhi dekhtin hein. Woh channels Peace TV aur raat gaye keh liye PTV hein. Mein yahan ke aur hindustaan ke un afraad ki baat kar raha tha jo yeh aopna te hein, jab keh maghrib mein HEIN SAHI par woh dosare libass bhi pehante hein,magar aap se bradaerana sawaal hae: Kiya woh humare lebaas pehante hein???


Is this some competition? Go promote your outfits, idiot.




> Kasoor tuwada hega! Na te ae kasoor mashre da, na kisi duji gal da, ide wich kasoor sade apne dilan da hae. Tusi parde se ghamze di umeed na lagaya karo! Aurtaan noon na dikha karo!


How do you know I do that? It's dipshits like you who spoil this society.




> mujhe kiya!


What people eat, wear, drink, et al isn't your business either.

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## Shaeireurdu

> You care? Thats funny actually.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this question isn't directed towards me but here goes: Your tv channels are run by a group of servile clowns like you who're afraid to tell the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Your miserable offtopic drifting syndrome brought me back. Is there a problem? 
> ...


Asalamoaliekum (peace be onto you).
Acha likha hae. Koi jawaab pesh nahin karon ga kkyonkeh mujhe gali galoch ki zubaan na pasand hae.
Allah aap ko hedayat de.
Allah (hi aap ka) Hafiz!

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## Shaeireurdu

> @Shairiurdu,
> 
> I find you totally ignoring my posts.Not a single reply to my points.Seems someone just took a backseat.


aaj kal mere apne phone mein kharabi hae, is liye aap ka jawaab jo word mein likha hae, kuch der baad aye ga, mafi chahta hoon.

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## Shaeireurdu

*pyare bhaiyon!*

Pyare bhaiyon (aur behnon)
Mein aap se koi jang nahin lar raha, par aik baat mere dishman (halankeh mein to unhe apna bhai manta hoon) ne  nahin pesh ki, jo aap log to nahin kehen ge, haan agar yahi mein hota to sawalon ka aik sumander aa chuka hota,keh un ashaar ka kiya jawaab hae aur baki baton ka kiya jawaab hae? dene ki zarorat nahin, faqt poch raha tha. Mytonse bhai, jese keh mene kaha, aap ka jawaab jald aye ga, albata aap ko aik baat kehni thi (dosre post mein hae). Mene jo kaha tha keh aman jang se behtar hae shaid koi meri baat samjh na paya...

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## Shaeireurdu

*Baraye Mytonse sahab*

Mein aap ki baton se naaraz nahin huwa, mujhe to khushi huwi keh aap mein bunyaad aur tameez ki gofto gu ka hunr hae. aap ki woh baaten keh aap ne mere kahe waqeyaat ka nahin suna, is par mein koi baat pesh nahin karon ga kyonkeh mere "referances" ziada tar zubani tor par mujhse aashna huwe. albata, aap ko darkhuat karon ga kisi aur se pooch lijiye. aap ne mujhe ulta anghotha dikhaya, mein aap ko seedha dikhata hoon kyoonkeh aap mere dushman hoon ya dost, mein aap ko dost hi manon ga.
:thumbs:aman jang se behtar hae:thumbs:
:thumbdown:SE:thumbs:behtar hae!
:mdk;?

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## Shaeireurdu

*Baraye Endurer*

HEY ENDURER!
:mdk;
?

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## criminallz

west ki positive baaton ko adopt karne behter hai banizbat negative baaton ko adopt karna.
Shazaib ka point of view merey nazdeek yehi hai. shalwar jeans se behter hai, kameeze t-shirt se behter hai, duppatta hona na hone se behter hai Pakistan main. hum pakistani hai orr iss ki bunyad hi Islam hia. Islam ijazat deta hai key achi baatein adopt karo chahey wo west ki hon ya east ki. so conclusion ye hai kay, we should promote our own culture rather than follow blindly in another's footsteps.

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## *Saira*

shalwar jeans se behter hai, kameeze t-shirt se behter hai

???

in what sense?Would u be kind enough to explain?

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## AaDi

> shalwar jeans se behter hai, kameeze t-shirt se behter hai
> 
> ???
> 
> in what sense?Would u be kind enough to explain?


jism properly dhaka hota hai .. larkiyon ki body parts ki shape visible nahi hoti .. per afsos abh es baat ka hai keh shalwar kameezon main bhi kasar nahi chori gai .. jeans aur t-shirts se ziada tite aur fittings ki shawar kameezein bazaar main aam hain ..

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## manni9

> jism properly dhaka hota hai .. larkiyon ki body parts ki shape visible nahi hoti .. per afsos abh es baat ka hai keh shalwar kameezon main bhi kasar nahi chori gai .. jeans aur t-shirts se ziada tite aur fittings ki shawar kameezein bazaar main aam hain ..


kya qayamat ki nígah  pai hea  :Stick Out Tongue: lay_ball:

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## mytonse

why has the debate suddenly halted .

@shaieraurdu,
Tongue said do not give sufficient proof.Youll have to prove it .

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## *Saira*

> jism properly dhaka hota hai .. larkiyon ki body parts ki shape visible nahi hoti .. per afsos abh es baat ka hai keh shalwar kameezon main bhi kasar nahi chori gai .. jeans aur t-shirts se ziada tite aur fittings ki shawar kameezein bazaar main aam hain ..


Exactly!Tou iss se yeh sabit ho gaya k na shalwar jeans se better hai aur na hee t-shirt qameez se aur BTW libas ka taluq sirf ladkiyon k jism se nahin hota.he used a general term k yeh uss se better hai aur yeh uss se...

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## sikandar107

aare Saira, kahan ke bakwas mein tum bhi ulajh gayee yaar.  Hum Asian sub-continent inheen sab bekar ki baaton mein ulajh ke reh jayeing.  Caste, Religion, Dress, sub religion aur bekar ki baatein.  Koi development ki baat nahin kerta.  Koi scientific research ki baat nahin kerta.  Bas Ram Raheem mein hi khush hain hum.  Meri samajh mein nahin aata ke iss thread mein itne saare posts likhe gaye, itne discussion huye, lekin ismein kiska kya value addition hua.  Dying East ki baat na kar ke agar hum Developing East ki baat karein tou zyada behtar hai.   :Smile:

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## AaDi

> Exactly!Tou iss se yeh sabit ho gaya k na shalwar jeans se better hai aur na hee t-shirt qameez se aur BTW libas ka taluq sirf ladkiyon k jism se nahin hota.he used a general term k yeh uss se better hai aur yeh uss se...


ji nahi! es se yeh sabit hoa keh behayai kahan tak hamaray mua'asharay main ghus chuki hai! aur ji nahi libas ka ta'aluq sirf larkiyon se he nahi .. larkon se bhi hai .. aur agar aap general term ki baat kar rahi hain toh aam tor pe shalwar kameezein (or most asian dresses) loose he hote hain .. waise bhi akal ka takaza bhi yehi hai keh insaan jo bhi pehnta hai .. jism dhakne ke liye pehnta hai .. nah keh apne jism ke a'azaa ko aur numaya karne ke liye ..

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## AaDi

> aare Saira, kahan ke bakwas mein tum bhi ulajh gayee yaar.  Hum Asian sub-continent inheen sab bekar ki baaton mein ulajh ke reh jayeing.  Caste, Religion, Dress, sub religion aur bekar ki baatein.  Koi development ki baat nahin kerta.  Koi scientific research ki baat nahin kerta.  Bas Ram Raheem mein hi khush hain hum.  Meri samajh mein nahin aata ke iss thread mein itne saare posts likhe gaye, itne discussion huye, lekin ismein kiska kya value addition hua.  Dying East ki baat na kar ke agar hum Developing East ki baat karein tou zyada behtar hai.


am really sorry to say sikandar bhai .. aap ko agar yeh sab bakwas lagta hai .. toh aap yahan pe post nah karein .. and agar aap ko lagta hai Development of East ka topic ziada behtar hai toh by all means .. New Thread ka button aap bhi use kar sakte hain .. topic banaein .. aur discussion start karein ..  :Smile:

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## AaDi

> why has the debate suddenly halted .
> 
> @shaieraurdu,
> Tongue said do not give sufficient proof.Youll have to prove it .


as far as I remember he has been banned .. he has spammed a lot and in some cases annoyed certain members ..

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## Endurer

Sikander, what took you so long mate? The last time I checked, DT was accepting thread submissions from every member. Now don't tell me if you were waiting for Saira to unleash your varied opinions on the subject.

OP was unbanned last night.

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## *Saira*

> am really sorry to say sikandar bhai .. aap ko agar yeh sab bakwas lagta hai .. toh aap yahan pe post nah karein .. and agar aap ko lagta hai Development of East ka topic ziada behtar hai toh by all means .. New Thread ka button aap bhi use kar sakte hain .. topic banaein .. aur discussion start karein ..


jeans aur shirt pehanne se behayai nahin phelti..baat sirf itni hai k yahan k logon ne ladke aur ladkiyon k liye separate staandards set kiye hue hain...agar jeans pehanne se behayai phelti hai tou i hope aainda se aap bhi sirf so called eastern dresses hee wear karenge!Koi libas bura nahin hota...libas ko jis dhung se pehna jaye woh achchha ya bura ho sakta hai..

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## Endurer

> Koi libas bura nahin hota...libas ko jis dhung se pehna jaye woh achchha ya bura ho sakta hai..


I agree on that one. Per Saira, kuch jaghien aisi hote hien jahan hum jeans pehen ker jayen to log mazak urayen gey. In other words, tamasha ban jayen gey. Mein yeh nahi keh raha k mazak urane wale apni jagha sahee hien.. no, unhon ney shayed aisa kuch dekha nahi hoga to aliens lagen gey hum unhien. 


^ Yeh karachi, islamabad, lahore k *kuch areas* mein to chale ga per yehi dress pehen ker koi multan, sialkot, quetta, peshawar jese conservative cities mein jaye to kiya hoga yeh hum sab jante hien.

Mera manana yeh hai k parda apki apni nigah mein hota hai dosre k libas mein nahi. Hamari nigah buri hogi to burqa pehnane wali bhi mutasir hogi, or agar hamari nigah saaf hogi to victoria's secret bhi hamare per asar andaz nahi hogi.

To everyone: bajaye dosron k batane k unhien kia khana, peena, ya pehnana chahiye.. humein khud ko or apne society ko ache or bure ki tamez sikhane chahiye.

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## Shaeireurdu

Salam!
Mujhe ban kiya gya tha, is ka to  nahin pata, albata, mein kisi kaam mein masroof tha, isliye aa nahin sakta tha.
:thumbs::::thumbs:
Mein bahut khush hoon keh sab ne aman ka raasta apna hi liya hae.
:thumbs::::thumbs:is sab ka shukriya criminallz bahen ko, Aadi bhai se mein bahut khush hoon, woh beech mein rahe, "neutral" rahe, saira ji ka keh unho ne baat ko halaka kiya, Sikandar ji aap ne baat to sahi ki, aap ke thread ka muntazir hoon, mani ji aap ke mazaaq se mein hans hans kar paghal ho gaya!, bahut khoob, mere dost, mytose sahab ne yeh kaha keh:



> why has the debate suddenly halted .
> 
> @shaieraurdu,
> Tongue said do not give sufficient proof.Youll have to prove it .


mere dost, is se behtar kiya hae keh ham aik aman passand sukhn ki janab barh rahe hein, kuch baaton per mein razi, kuch par aap log.

Criminalz ji ne siraf meri taraf se aik aman pasand zariye se mera khoonkhar nazariya doosron ko batlaya hae, un ko ghalat mat lijiye. Hae himat, to shafqat se mere paas aiye.

Rahi baat infractions ki, to jin ka mujhe khud pata hae, woh shayed do ya teen hein, jo keh endurer sahab ki merehbaani hae, mein to phir dosti ka haath barhae karha hoon, ab woh hi dushmani par tule hein...

Mein khush hoon keh koi gaali galoch nahin huwa, mere dost endurer ne bhi koi khaas hamla nahin kiya, aur overall mein kahon ga keh SUBHANALLAH, JAZAKAALAH, RAZAKALLAH, ALHAMDULILAH, MASHALLAH Allah ne is medaan e jang ko ehbaab mein tabdeel kar diya.
ALLAHUKABAR!
:captain:*MUALANA* Muhamad Shahzaib Khan:smartass:

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## Endurer

Dekho bhai shahzaib.. mein yeh baat ab akhri baar kahon ga. Apko perhna ho to yehin a kar perh lena per mein dobara yehi baat baar baar dohra nahi sakta.

1) Apne irrelevant forums mein thread post kiye jo k rules k khilaf hai. Aik ya do baar aisa koi kare to usse nazar andar ker dia jata hai or khamoshi se topics move ho jate hien. Per apne yeh kaam hi pakar lia hai k jahan apka dil kare aap wahan apni pasand k topic ka inderaj ker dete hien.

2) Aap duplicate posting kerte hien. Issi thread mein apki aik post aik sath do baar and in some cases 3 baar post howe. Yeh b rules k khilaf hai. Yahan pakezgi ka khas khiyal rakha jata hai takke perhne wale ka experience acha rahe. Na k usse aik hi post baar baar perhne parey ya usse spiritual heaven mein general discussions perhne ko milen.

Infractions koi dhamki nahi, na hi hum usse apne peronal makasid k lie istemal kerte hien. Infractions ka record team k pass jata hai or wahan hum sab ko jawab dena hota hai k aisa kyun kiya. Ab agar aap yeh sochte hien k sari team hi apke khilaf hai to apki soch ghalat hai. Hum personal or official maumlat mein faraq kerna jante hien or iska sabot yahan per mojoud dosre members hien.

Meri aap se guzarish hai k buhtan baazi se ejtenab keren. Agar apke pass koi sabot nahi to apko buhtan baazi per (chahe kissi per bhi ki gaye ho) infraction mille gi. Apke pichle record ko dekhte howe apko unban kia geya, werna apki ID August tak k lie ban ker di gaye thi. Ab apko moka milla hai to uska istemal keren or dosron per sabit keren k aap samjhdar hien or shaur rakhte hien.

Menen kaye jagha per dekha apko yeh post kerte howe k endurer ki mujhse koi dushmani hai. Mere bhai dushmani bohat karwa lafz hai or mein is per ya iske falsafe per yakeen nahi kerta. Wese bhi, koi apke opinion se mutafiq na ho to woh apka dushman nahi ban jata. Difference of opinion hi debates ko healthy banata hai. Umeed hai k aap is tarha ki baton se ijtenab keren gey.

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## sikandar107

> Sikander, what took you so long mate? The last time I checked, DT was accepting thread submissions from every member. Now don't tell me if you were waiting for Saira to unleash your varied opinions on the subject.
> 
> OP was unbanned last night.


In fact I was to write before but I saw there was a ban on this topic.  So, could not.  Generally I try to avoid participating in such topic coz. I have a different line of interests altogether and try no to indulge on any kind of argument which would not have any value addition or I get trapped into any kind of controversy.  No No.. I was not waiting for Saira nor do I wait for anyone.  If I wish to participate on any topic then I take the points of basically last post as my thread of discussion and reply on that.  And when dress was being taken as the parameter of "Dying East", then I thought it appropriate to reply.  I was not to reply to your post too, but since name of other person called "Saira" was referred to in your post, I wanted to clarify my stand.   :Smile:

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## Endurer

> In fact I was to write before but I saw there was a ban on this topic. So, could not. Generally I try to avoid participating in such topic coz. I have a different line of interests altogether and try no to indulge on any kind of argument which would not have any value addition or I get trapped into any kind of controversy. No No.. I was not waiting for Saira nor do I wait for anyone. If I wish to participate on any topic then I take the points of basically last post as my thread of discussion and reply on that. And when dress was being taken as the parameter of "Dying East", then I thought it appropriate to reply. I was not to reply to your post too, but since name of other person called "Saira" was referred to in your post, I wanted to clarify my stand.


I respect your interests. To tell you the truth, I just wanted to curb this xenophobia on the rise in different sections of desitwist. I suffice it to say that we have some tedious right-wing pedants here who need a healthy dose of enlightenment.

I hope to see more intellectuals like you here so that we may put an end to subcontinental retrogression.

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## mytonse

@Shairiurdu,

At the moment i am short on urdu,it would be best if you could jot it down in english,atleast for me.

(quote)Peace is to prevail.But yes ,if we were  to show the right path free of paradoxed self proclaimed sentences then we all will be sharing the nice cool atmosphere here and elsewhere.(/quote)

After decipheration of your urdu script...^

Regards.

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## Shaeireurdu

> @Shairiurdu,
> 
> At the moment i am short on urdu,it would be best if you could jot it down in english,atleast for me.
> 
> (quote)Peace is to prevail.But yes ,if we were  to show the right path free of paradoxed self proclaimed sentences then we all will be sharing the nice cool atmosphere here and elsewhere.(/quote)
> 
> After decipheration of your urdu script...^
> 
> Regards.


Salam.
At the moment I am unable to post some points that I wanted to make, however, I apprecite brother endurer has also come to an understanding...I shal translate some of the important points I made and after some time post a final summary here, any way a short word for brother endurer, I mayself wanted some of the post of mine here deleted because due to human error I had many at times posted an incomplete post, I reqeust that the incomplete versions be deleted, you can contact me directly to know which ones are those...

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## mytonse

You can contact the moderators concerning the deletion of your posts.

Looking forward to your summary.

Regards.

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## Shaeireurdu

> You can contact the moderators concerning the deletion of your posts.
> 
> Looking forward to your summary.
> 
> Regards.


I hope it does not take too long, as soon as my work is done I shall post it...

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